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Three Phase Circuit Breaker and Rotary Phase Converter

jfl4066

Plastic
Joined
Apr 20, 2018
Hi All,

I've got a 1953 MG square dial running off a rotary phase converter. The other day I was wondering if I should have a 3 pole circuit breaker between the phase converter and the lathe? Since the 3rd leg is generated I don't see protection if it shorts to ground.
 
Thx Thermite. You confirmed my suspicions! Common-trip for me.

What size? 10 or 15 amp? All original MG lathe.
 
Pass.

I had only gotten back into my MG one's restoration about a month ago, and am not close to sorting the electrical side of it yet. The one with SSD drive is not relevant. Single-phase critter.

No Problem. Thx Thermite. Maybe Cal Haines?
 
It is neither complicated, nor overly inflexible.

"Upstream" or external breakers at a load center are meant to protect the wire of their branch circuit. 30 A 3-Pole for most of mine.

The device or "system" - a 10EE, entire in this case - that is connected to a branch is on its own, whether formally vetted to UL/CSA/TuV or just reasonably competent Engineering and/or sane DIY.

The 3-Phase generator drive motor's FLA is right on its data plate. Starting inrush is "as usual", kinda brutal in Amps, but mercifully VERY short.

A breaker MAY need "slo acting" selection, but not necessarily.

I'm short better numbers for you until I dig deeper into some OTHER things my MG 10EE needs patched.

DC Drives ramp up from an even gentler start than a VFD. No capacitor bank to charge. They don't HAVE a starting inrush, Ergo stress a "QO" breaker's sensitive nature not at all.

No-load, out of the machine, no belts, nor even gearbox, 15A 2-Pole @ 246VAC was fine for my bench-testing. An SSD has its own protection, but is optioned to deliver as much as 24 A @ 275 VDC if the 12 FLA nominal 230 VDC motor will even "suck it", locked-rotor or near-as-dammit. Generally, it will NOT.

So the "Day Job" version gets one of my 30A 3-P branches for its AC input side.

Sanity check: Thats actually a skosh MORE than a 10 HP Phase-Perfect or the RPC WHEN running in 10 HP-idler mode theoretically sustains (28 A or therebouts??)

So.. I'd GUESS an MG 10EE runs off 15 A ... or less, even at moderately heavy loading ..but benefits from 20A service. .so as to not annoy with the odd "nuisance tripout" on startup? Worse.. a stall whilst in a heavy cut?

Page Two:

Machine tools in general are built tough. A tad of locally high temps in the electron-mangling goods are not as big a problem as STALLING whilst "in the cut" from a fault tripout. That risks damaging work as well as tooling, messing-up part of yer whole day with it.

Hence my supplying 30 A and trusting to the SSD Drive to monitor wisely for overloads.

Yah. I know. "that's easy for thermite to say".. he has a spare motor for each 10EE.

:D

I gotcha. Thx Thermite.
 
I would put in a 30A breaker and wire it with minimum #10 wire (heavier wire if there's a long run). The breaker isn't there to protect the motor or the drive system, just the wiring. Overload protection for the motor/drive is via overload relays or by using the overload limits of the DC drive, if that's an option.

Cal
 
I would put in a 30A breaker and wire it with minimum #10 wire (heavier wire if there's a long run). The breaker isn't there to protect the motor or the drive system, just the wiring. Overload protection for the motor/drive is via overload relays or by using the overload limits of the DC drive, if that's an option.

Cal

My primary concern was a wire shorting to machine frame etc. Old wires/old insulation. Just want protection so I'm not in the circuit some day. I was looking at a UL489 branch circuit breaker, DIN mounted in J-box at the machine. I can get a Eaton 3-pole with a D-curve trip for inductance type of current draw. 60 bucks worth of insurance.
 
Lucky you Thermite!
Usually it's not the current but the fall or reaction that messes you up!

"lectric" has my utmost respect! Everything in my shop is grounded. :cheers:
 
There's an ordinary 3-pole breaker, 30A, between my distribution panel and the 10ee. It's not a special slow version. It's sole purpose is to save the wire between the panel and the lathe in the event things somehow go TU. Wiring a 10ee without a breaker? Yes, you can, but I wouldn't.
 
The RPC should have suitable protection for its output circuits. If it is designed for a 30A load, then there should be a 30A circuit breaker on that output, but that is just to protect the wiring and rpc. Protecting the 10EE is a different matter. i.e. the maximum current draw of a 3HP MG machine is the question, and I would expect it to be less than 30A.
 








 
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