Timer Relay repair or replace

My three tube later model 30 inch 10EE was not turning on after four years of not being used.
The 60 second timing relay is NOT working, allowing the green light to turn on and the lathe to
come to life. Bypassing the relay( applying 110 volts to the "C" terminal) the lathe works fine.

Did a search , and incredibly enough didn't find much info on this relay. Not many parts in it, but
these days I would wager almost all these parts aren't easy to obtain. Anyone replace their relay with a more modern timing relay?

I've been spoiled and use a large CNC lathe almost exclusively, but I have a 18 inch long casting that needs an ID thread in the bore.
CNC lathes just aren't set up to easily use a steady rest. After almost a ten year break of using my Monarchs to thread these, I did three of them last night.
I feel totally inept at threading on a manual lathe at this point. Only have a 3/8ths depth of thread that ends at a shoulder. So getting the threading tool disengaged, takes some real coordination. Used to do them on my 20 inch 10EE with electric leadscrew reverse and could FLY through them, although I had ZERO room. Bought the thirty
inch with this part in mind 15 years ago, and last night was the first time I used it for this job. My cnc lathe does these at 250 RPM and manually I felt I couldn't hardly go forty rpm without feeling apprehensive. Nice to have used my 30 inch though. At a 16TPI, I can only cut 7 threads, go too far my cutter crashes into the shoulder. Seven threads happens pretty quickly. No DRO so just using a dial indicator to determine depth. HAve to appreciate the abilities of people manually threading.

Brian
Sorry you need parts. Give Scott at Monarch a call, he sometimes has a few used parts around.
Glad to hear you put that 30" EE to use.
I recall one time you said something about making up some 30" leadscrews for your longbed EE out of some high quality stock on your thread grinder.
Did you ever get any made up?

Hal

DIsclaimer- not a purist when it comes to keeping the 10EE running.
There are a couple versions of warmup timers depending on vintage of the control.
After about mid 1960s vintage, the design was changed and IME is considerably more reliable and durable than the early versions.

There is a wide selection of affordable commercial off the shelf, programmable, solid state timers available, would suggest finding something from Finder, AB, Weidmuller,Siemens , Schneider, etc.

Have found here that manual threading is kind of a perishable skill, pretty easy when you are doing it all the time but huge potential for a crash or disaster if out of practice.

Current task is a perfect situation for setting up and using the ELSR function. On a well tuned machine, higher threading speeds can be used, the carriage will consistently stop within .003". The rapid return feature can significantly reduce cycle times.

Definite interest here if you do 30" leadscrews!

PS good to see you back on the forum, you should hang out here and post more.

I did a google search and came up with( 10ee and no green light)
It list a couple relays .
The one they show for a modular unit is a adjustable Dayton relay 5x829f.
There are several on eBay, if that's what you need.

Hal

The casting I'm machining is called a Deep Hole Grinder- a grinder designed to reach into pretty long holes and grind a journal. Uses four, and five inch diameter wheels. I've had just PART of this casting machined by a shop for the last fifteen years. CNC milling the round mounting surfaces. My guy got REALLY busy manufacturing clean rooms and pressure booths this year and is buried in his main business. So I'm using machines older than I am, in 2020 making a grinder going into nuclear subs.

A Kearney and Trecker 2D rotary milling machine is milling the mounting surface. The machine is so accurate I can dial the exact dimensions using the micrometer dials on this machine and hit a thousanths in size at a 4 1/2 inch diameter. Off to the Excello double end boring machine, where the bearing bores are EASILY and accurately machined to tenths tolerances using Devlieg Microbore bars. The Excello is probably an early fifties machine. The Monarch threaded the castings. The secondary drilling for name plates will probably be done in a Bridgeport. The ONLY part of this job using a newer machine was turning the OD of the long snout of the casting. Nothing beats a CNC lathe for stupid work like this.

I can leave my 30 inch 10EE set up for this job, with the steady rest in location, the jaws on the chuck to size and the threading tool left. Fifteen years ago I WAS threading a LOT of my castings in my 20 inch 10EE with ELSR. That ENDED when the lathe totally crashed after doing ten or fifteen parts. A microswitch stuck, something happened, and BANG. Kind of soured me on using it for production work. I fell in love with my CNC lathe for threading. American, Metric threads, doesn't matter. ONE number in the program. No gears to fuss with, After twenty years I'm still in awe of it's ability to exactly enter the thread at the right spot at 250 to 300 RPM.

I know years ago, I figured I had a thread grinder, and now I can grind anything. Thread grinding is an art and a skill that frankly has taken YEARS to figure out. I'm STILL a novice. Grinding a leadscrew longer than twenty inches is challenging on my current machines as I have to move the part and pick up the lead. Most people that do thread grinding- that's ALL they do. I'm trying to machine using a hundred different machines, so NEVER get to be an expert at any one of them. Grinding LONG screws is especially challenging. I grind my versaMil feedtable screws that are right at twenty inches of thread. very challenging to get them perfect from end to end. Thread grinding is probably the MOST challenging part of my business. Getting beautiful threads that are accurate is NOT easy. If I had life to do over again, I probably would NOT have tried thread grinding. easier to just sub it out to experts- which are getting to be few and far between.

When I was at Monarch Lathes years ago, they were using a Pratt and Whitney Thread Mill to do their leadscrews. They didn't grind them. DC Morrison, the maker of keyseaters does a great job thread milling long screws. I highly recommend them. ask for Jeff.

I was hoping someone has figured out the circuitry in the timer relay. I'd like to keep the stock switch, but if push comes to shove, I'll replace it with a more modern timer. Be nice to have it IN the original switch housing, and wire up the same. I HATE molesting original wiring cabinets.

The relays I listed that are on Ebay are new old stock.

Hal

Hal, I've seen those relays in other machines, may not be original looking but it gets the job done. I appreciate your help. Certainly easier to throw one in than try and repair the original.

I ave replaced a couple of these relays. My first inclination is to find the original rather than cobble something. In this case, though, I found that they are a lousy design for an insane amount of money, somewhere in the high $200s. They use a little clock motor like a Synchron with a slip clutch. When you disconnect the power, the clutch releases and the spring loaded output can snap back to the starting position, which is adjustable to set the time, When it winds around to a stop, activating the contact. All the time power is on, the motor runs, wearing its fragile little life away.

The modern timers I replaced them with have not given a moments trouble.

The lathe is at a customer's shop that I get to frequently. If you wish, I will get the manufacturer and part number next time I am there.

Bill

SUPCO Single Function Encapsulated Timing Relay, 19 to 250V AC'/'DC, Mounting':' Surface, SPST-NO - 407L15'|'TD69 - Grainger

I used one of these in my RPC to delay the output to the machines until all the voltages and such were leveled out.

This one is SPST NO , but they also have DPDT NO and so on. Can be ran on 24v/120/240 and also has a nice range of timing adjustment. I believe it’s solid state but don’t quote me on that. So far been a year with no issue.

Cost me 8$ from grainger!! You CANT beat that!

Brian, I used this timer relay to control the regen breaking on my Parker setup. Can be set up to do anything you need.

Macromatic TE-8812U $46.99 Time Delay Rlay, 12 to 240VAC/DC, 15A, DPDT, Pins: 9 | Zoro.com