What is the allure of the 10ee?
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    Default What is the allure of the 10ee?

    As the title says, what is the allure of the monarch 10ee lathe? What makes it so special and desirable? I see threads about them all the time, but just don't know the backstory.

    Yes this is a serious inquiry.

    I understand they were used in military/government applications.

    Thanks in advance for replys.

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    Ridgidity due to weight and size of casting, spindle smoothness and speed control because of dc motor and drive, quality of build, and precision of tight manufacturing tolerances.

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    Its like owning a BMW, and your friend has a ford pinto...Phil

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    I'd add that he quality of build, was relative to that it was built first, to meet a quality and accuracy standard, rather than being built to a price that would ensure it was in every shop.

    It and a handful of other lathes fit in the same category. Up to a Standard not down to a price point.

    As a result, they generally ended up in places that were well funded (Government, Military, research shops), and well taken care of. The 10EE is a reasonable size for a experienced amateur to move too, and will fit in the same space as a lot of less capable lathes will.

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    They are very robust small lathes that had high precision when built. They are small form factor and many operate on single phase power, both attributes that many small/home shops prefer. They are powerful for their size in spindle HP and have a really large saddle, The base and bed foundation are designed to preserve integrity with three simple points of contact. The belt driven variable speed spindle is smooth at any speed from dead slow to max RPM 2500~4000 nominally. These lathes have a huge number of pluses, the one weak spot is the tailstock. It can be argued that they are a small toolroom lathe and the tailstock is adequate but, a bit more beef here would go far.

    The 10EE is not the most ergonomic lathe but the controls are well placed. The level of engineering, fit and finish are top notch. There are other small lathes with similar features, most were produced in small numbers many in Europe. There were but a handful of domestic competitors for the 10EE. The success of the line and total numbers produced make the 10EE more accessible than its imitators and rivals. The 10EE was originally developed long before many of the other lathes in this class, some have been doing good work for over 80 years. That alone is quite a legacy but, you can still buy a 10EE new or at least newish right from the source. The 10EE was never a price point machine, it was very expensive from the start. Companies and government agencies that bought these valued the performance of these in spite of the cost. My 10EE in 1976 cost more than a nice home in a good neighborhood of Los Angeles at the time.

    Then there is the "look" that art-deco stylized form is just industrial design at its acme. Machine tool builders were aware of aesthetics in the lathe 19th century into the early 20th century. Somewhere along the line it became less relevant, WWII may have been a contributor. Pre war many machines had graceful flowing lines. The 10EE as a legacy of a former era kept its curves as it matured post war. There were other machines that were styled after the war but the 10EE has a classic profile that was instantly recognizable. Monarch modified and updated the 10EE with tasteful amendments that preserved the original design elements. The combination of capabilities and design are perhaps why these little lathes are so sought after. That they built tens of thousands didn't hurt.

    Steve

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    Its like buying a rolls royce. arguably the best of the best. but talk to any rolls royce owner, especially a vintage one, and they will tell you they are well acquainted with their mechanic. A Honda Accord is much more reliable but there is the mystique of the Rolls.
    Same way with the 10ee.

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    If we were going for dreams, I'd prefer the smallest Pacemaker, in the late model squarish style. 12 x 36 ? I always found the 10EE's sort of clunky, ergonomically. Not a huge fan of all their electronic/electro-mechanical stuff, either.

    Lots easier to find a Monarch though

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Montana View Post
    Its like owning a BMW, and your friend has a ford pinto...Phil
    Ermmm... nooo. Full fifty year already since BMW built a decent motorcar.

    More like owning a Duesenberg or Pierce.... and your friend has a kinda neat Crosley "Hot Shot"..... or a vanilla moneypit "BMW".




    Disclosure:

    2005 XJ8-L 4.2 NA
    2011 Range Rover Sport HSE Luxi 5.0 NA.
    Last edited by thermite; 06-20-2021 at 01:21 AM.

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    Part of it is just the name.
    I don't have a 10EE but a 12CK.
    Have gotten to know a few guys in the area who like myself have a hobby shop.
    Of course when you get to talking about projects you are working on or the machines in your shop the question of what kind of lathe you have comes up.
    When I mention I have a vintage Monarch their eyebrows raise and the "Ohh. Nice!" is spoken.
    Of course, my old lathe could be completely worn out for all they know. (It is not) But if it were, it would still be like an empty Courvoisier bottle compared to an empty Christian Brothers bottle and deserve a little more respect.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultradog MN View Post
    Part of it is just the name.
    I don't have a 10EE but a 12CK.
    Have gotten to know a few guys in the area who like myself have a hobby shop.
    Of course when you get to talking about projects you are working on or the machines in your shop the question of what kind of lathe you have comes up.
    When I mention I have a vintage Monarch their eyebrows raise and the "Ohh. Nice!" is spoken.
    Of course, my old lathe could be completely worn out for all they know. (It is not) But if it were, it would still be like an empty Courvoisier bottle compared to an empty Christian Brothers bottle and deserve a little more respect.
    "Empty" they are seldom...

    "Respect" ........for any of the "Grand Old" legends - not JUST Monarch - was earned by their ability- when in skilled hands - to still make decent parts when they ARE "worn out", by any sane measure, anyway.

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    Great info,thanks

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    For machining small parts there is not a better lathe, will hold a .0005 tol all day long and has the spindle speed too machine a bright finish, A lead screw reverse, ver speed ect and is a easy lathe to run. As said if you have a larger part to machine any Monarch is up to the task. Monarch did not build cheap lathes. Look what the lathe sold for in the day..You could have 5 south-bends or 1 Monarch...Phil

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    Also History of the machine is a contributing factor. The 10EE is the machine that built the atomic bomb. Word is that there are many of them buried in the desert or wherever the US Gov't used to dispose of its nuclear waste. One of my machines was shipped to London in 1940 and survived WWII making parts for Ferranti corp. When I got it in the early 90's, the tailstock was full of long stringy bronze cuttings, and the swarf in the congealed coolant was all bronze dust. It came with steady rest jaws with acme thread, and spindle tooling with gears to drive something, so the history would be interesting if you knew it. Each machine had an original owner, and you can get information about it from Terrie at Monarch.

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    E.G. mentioned dreams so here's the dream team: a 10EE and a 610 or 612. In good shape, their limits are that of the operator and available tooling.

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    OK, now I've become smitten all over again with mine. Thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve in SoCal View Post
    They are very robust small lathes that had high precision when built. They are small form factor and many operate on single phase power, both attributes that many small/home shops prefer. They are powerful for their size in spindle HP and have a really large saddle, The base and bed foundation are designed to preserve integrity with three simple points of contact. The belt driven variable speed spindle is smooth at any speed from dead slow to max RPM 2500~4000 nominally. These lathes have a huge number of pluses, the one weak spot is the tailstock. It can be argued that they are a small toolroom lathe and the tailstock is adequate but, a bit more beef here would go far.

    The 10EE is not the most ergonomic lathe but the controls are well placed. The level of engineering, fit and finish are top notch. There are other small lathes with similar features, most were produced in small numbers many in Europe. There were but a handful of domestic competitors for the 10EE. The success of the line and total numbers produced make the 10EE more accessible than its imitators and rivals. The 10EE was originally developed long before many of the other lathes in this class, some have been doing good work for over 80 years. That alone is quite a legacy but, you can still buy a 10EE new or at least newish right from the source. The 10EE was never a price point machine, it was very expensive from the start. Companies and government agencies that bought these valued the performance of these in spite of the cost. My 10EE in 1976 cost more than a nice home in a good neighborhood of Los Angeles at the time.

    Then there is the "look" that art-deco stylized form is just industrial design at its acme. Machine tool builders were aware of aesthetics in the lathe 19th century into the early 20th century. Somewhere along the line it became less relevant, WWII may have been a contributor. Pre war many machines had graceful flowing lines. The 10EE as a legacy of a former era kept its curves as it matured post war. There were other machines that were styled after the war but the 10EE has a classic profile that was instantly recognizable. Monarch modified and updated the 10EE with tasteful amendments that preserved the original design elements. The combination of capabilities and design are perhaps why these little lathes are so sought after. That they built tens of thousands didn't hurt.

    Steve

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    Quote Originally Posted by machinistrrt View Post
    ... here's the dream team: a 10EE and a 610 or 612.
    If we get two, I'd want late-model Pacemaker and a Hardinge. It's just real hard to beat the stick shift on a 'maker ..... otherwise, they're about equal. And for small work hell, if you aren't too busy you could just sit and look at the Hardinge all day ... safer than a seventeen year old office assistant, too

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    I bought mine because I did my research on them. I wanted a higher speed spindle plus mass for rigidity. It doesn’t hurt that it looks good while having both of those features.

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    The Monarch 10EE or double E as Monarch called them, was ahead of its time when introduced in 1938/39. The easy of use and accuracy coupled with infinite variable spindle drive was the right combination at the right time in history. It was a premium toolroom lathe that was able to be mass produced without loss of functionality or accuracy even during the harsh war time conditions of WWII. Monarch was able to keep it relevant for the next 60+ years. Lastly over 20,000 double E’s, have been built which has made them more available than toolroom lathes of equal capability.

    John

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    If we get two, I'd want late-model Pacemaker and a Hardinge. It's just real hard to beat the stick shift on a 'maker ..... otherwise, they're about equal. And for small work hell, if you aren't too busy you could just sit and look at the Hardinge all day ... safer than a seventeen year old office assistant, too
    Phhhht.... add to consideration a sound last-few-years-of-production Axelson or "Herringbone" Sidney.. and DEFINITELY sub a Schaublin 130 or 150 for the feet-on-contrarian-legs weird-looking weak-kneed Hardinge.

    Then "settle"... for a 10EE and an easier to FIND.. Cazeneuve HBX?

    Cheap compromise. Works for me.

    Actually needed anything with lower rotating mass than the 10EE - as for tiny Hardinge-range collet-runner work? D'ruther a Wade, smaller Schaublin, or even a Derbyshire.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    If we get two, I'd want late-model Pacemaker and a Hardinge. It's just real hard to beat the stick shift on a 'maker ..... otherwise, they're about equal. And for small work hell, if you aren't too busy you could just sit and look at the Hardinge all day ... safer than a seventeen year old office assistant, too
    Alright Manny,

    The Hardinge comparison is like a Miata and a 275 GTS sure the Hardinge is cute and it has a coupla features BUT, it is a far cry from a 10EE

    As for the Pacemaker, they are nice and if you like rowing gears I guess that is a plus, I'll take my series 62 dynashift with pre-select myself.

    All kidding aside, there are many amazing lathes from storied makers in the US, Europe and Asia. Your favorite Pacemakers my other favorite Okuma and plenty in-between. The topic here is Monarch 10EE's and why they are desirable. There are but a handful of lathes in the class, from the old Hendy gauge makers and Rivett 1020/1030 to Smart and Brown 1024 or the CVA copy. The rare SouthBend/Sidney 1307 or the Schaublin's The Hardinge HLV-H is really in a different class more a watchmakers lathe with bells and whistles.

    The Rivett and CVA are really the closest with the CVA being almost a copy of the 10EE. The success of the 10EE is its prolific numbers, they made tens of thousands. All the other cool lathes in the same class were made in pretty small numbers. The S&B 1024 is a wonderful lathe, really hard to find on this side of the pond. Rivett 1020/1030's were made in the hundreds. The chance of finding a 10EE in good condition by shear numbers is better than hunting for some rare beast.

    The lil Pacemaker is twice the size of a 10EE, that alone is a show stopper for many. Then finding one in good shape is not a trivial task. I bought my 10EE when I was working out of my almost 2 car garage in Woodland Hills, I looked at HLV-H's before buying the 10EE. The 10EE has just enough more envelope to make it a much more versatile machine along with metric threading. Yea there are I/M HLV-H's but they are really pricy or were back then. In my garage I could only have one small lathe, the 10EE was the best choice of lathes that are not Holly Grail quests.

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