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why so many short bed Monarchs?

Marc_Stokeld

Cast Iron
Joined
Dec 25, 2006
Location
Sawyer, MN
I am always looking at old lathes for sale and noticed that the Monarchs usually have short beds. 30" seems to be the norm for 13-16" or so swing lathes. Why are the beds so short? When looking at a 61 or the like, the headstock is as long as the bed. I saw a Series 61 sell at a good price a couple of weeks ago, and it was only 2 hours away. I could not possibly afford it anyway, but if I had the money then I would not have gotten it because I need a longer bed.

Any idea why Monarchs usually have short beds?
 
You have to remember that you are seeing old used lathes when one sees all these short bed Monarchs. Longer bed lathes took up valuable floor space, so when they no longer paid for their keep they would be the first out the door. Monarch made some really long bed lathes (over 300") and hundreds of lathes having 78-126 or more center distance, so it is really deceiving when these haven't made the use market. Longer beds also required more money both to buy and to move which also increased their chance to go the scrap yard. Another reason is just more short length beds where sold than longer length beds.

By 1919 Monarch made cone head lathes from 10" to 30" swings. One can still fine many of the 14" and 16" and sometimes an 18" (Model A and B), but rarely if any of the larger swing lathes (Model D). More of the "A" and "B" where made so more survived, and the same is true with smaller length beds. Also one rarely finds any of the manufacturing lathes that Monarch built thousands of. These are the tracer controlled Monamatics and the like. Again these machines have very little value to secondary users or home shops as well as most were pretty well worn out after making several million parts.

Looking at what remains on the use market one would get a very limited glimpse of all the types of lathes Monarch made in its 90 or so years. Few would know that Monarch had a large share of the NC/CNC market in the 60's and 70's nor all the special lathes they built, or the massive metal removing Dyna-shift series of lathes or the large VTL. Monarch also built HMC (70's and 80's) and a small grinder (in the 30's). (This is in Sidney and not counting all the different machines made at their other divisions Monarch accired over the years)

The main machines that have survived are those that fit nicely in a garage or basement, or those manufactures that still have a need for old iron lathe like a Monarch. I hope this answered your question.

John
 
The 10 x 20 (really 12.5 x 20) 10EE is small for a Monarch.

Engine and toolroom lathe beds, other than the EE series, were made in 12" increments from 30" on up ... 30", 42", 54", 66", 78", 90", etcetera.
 
I think a huge amount of the work done in a small (Technically 10") toolroom lathe is done at or within a few inches of the chuck. It may just be a matter of diminishing returns once in cost vs. bed length.
 
I am sure he was jesting... I dont think there has even been a SB made that comes anywhere close to a monarch. They were intended for two different demographics. South Bends seemed to be targeted to home shops and small business. Few small business at the time could afford a 10EE unless they could justify it.

One wonders what the original creators of the 10EE would think that their machines are now filling garages across the states. A machine that new was more expensive than the annual salary of it operator.
 
One wonders what the original creators of the 10EE would think that their machines are now filling garages across the states. A machine that new was more expensive than the annual salary of it operator.

I think the makes of the 10 EE would be thrilled. Any machine that can have a life span of the 10 EE is a great design. The machine I just pick up when new in 1973 I bet cost more than my my house did in 1973
 
Guess I should have said it was not the EE I was curious about. I can understand why that one is sized as such. It is more the lathes up through 16" swing and even larger, and the overwhelmining most common bed length that I see is 30". jlegge's answer makes a lot of sense to me. I am currently experiencing a severe concrete shortage myself and totally understand about letting better things go due to lack of real estate. Something like a Series 61 with a 40" bed would be awesome. I will keep looking at old lathes and in a couple of years when I have some money saved I will try to snag one.

Speaking of South Bends an Monarchs (or as Stevie Wonder said "Ebony and Ivory"), I bought an old 13x54 SB from a PM member and he showed me his Monarch. It is a 20 1/2x72, built in 1946, and as cherry as is possible in 2008. Man, that lathe was incredible! It required some serious real estate, but if you have the floor space, that thing would be a wonderful addition to most shops.

I assumed the SB comment was a joke, as an SB sitting next to a Monarch is a joke (a joke which I have in my own shop BTW). They both serve different needs and both are very good at what they do, but a South Bend going head to head with a Monarch? It would be like disabled 140# me going up against Mike Tyson in a boxing ring. I can do a lot of things he can't do, but the results of me slugging it out with him are a foregone conclusion!
 
Wasn't there a heavy South Bend lathe (IIRC design bought from Monarch), fairly recent model? IIRC it looked like a Monarch- heavy & robust, monster carriage, lots of features, etc.. a very different design (and probably very much greater cost) than the usual South Bend.

Regards,

Greg
 
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Neat thing about the longer ones (16 CW X 102 here) is they were frequently maintenance machines all their lives and are in a correspondingly less wear mode.

I also learned something from the 16" C brochure Doug gave me - no hard beds over 102" centers. I suppose when that was printed their flame hardening rig (or the subsequently required grinder) was only so long.
 
We had a short bed Monarch at our school (Community College) and I was told there are so many short beds made in the 40's because they were made for use by the Navy in WWII. It's also why they are all "battleship gray" I'm told.
 








 
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