Will I regret eliminating reverse direction on CY16?
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  1. #1
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    Default Will I regret eliminating reverse direction on CY16?

    I have a new-to-me 1944 CY16 that came with a Furnas reversing motor starter setup with a solid state motor circuit protector. The MCP doesn't much like the power coming from my rotary phase converter so I'm in the process of replacing the whole starter/MCP setup.

    I plan on ditching the reversing options. Namely because:
    • I already have the parts for a non-reversing setup
    • I read elsewhere that this lathe isn't meant to be ran backwards except under very light loads
    • My CY16 has the reversing feed lever option



    Are there any scenarios where I'd regret not having a reversing motor? .

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    tapping...

    I also do various boring and threading operations in reverse. Not something I'd want to live without.

    It does not lube right in reverse. But as long as you run pretty frequently in the fwd direction, everything will be lubed well enough to survive excursions in reverse to make your life easier.

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    I agree with Hillside Fab, there are times when I need to run the lathe backward, primarily threading with a die stock. I handle that easily with a reversing drum switch.

    Tom

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    Quote Originally Posted by *D'B=6bk View Post
    I have a new-to-me 1944 CY16 that came with a Furnas reversing motor starter setup with a solid state motor circuit protector. The MCP doesn't much like the power coming from my rotary phase converter so I'm in the process of replacing the whole starter/MCP setup.

    I plan on ditching the reversing options. Namely because:
    • I already have the parts for a non-reversing setup
    • I read elsewhere that this lathe isn't meant to be ran backwards except under very light loads
    • My CY16 has the reversing feed lever option



    Are there any scenarios where I'd regret not having a reversing motor? .
    Just try it.

    Not as if it were a Voyager spacecraft too far away for you to change back, next week or next year.

    What's the Big Fine Deal about a minor wiring exercise, easily altered?

    I mean.. it IS "PM".

    You can GET advice on whether to change yer undershorts for clean ones daily or just trade, even-up, with yer buddy for each other's used ones once a week..

    Even so, not EVERY question needs a full audience.


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    If your contactor does not like the 3 Phase from the RPC, change the leads that feed the single phase control wiring. It may be the voltage swings more on the generated leg than the utility feed legs. A volt meter on the three legs should show the generated leg higher than the other two.

    If the leg 2 is control wiring and generated leg. swap leg 2 to 3, 3 to 1 to 2. This will keep the motor running correct direction. RPC installation directions always state not to use generated leg as control wiring leg.

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    The head stock dog clutches are beveled to favor forward - but my CW16 goes backwards as per original - when wanted

    Lead screw reverse on the CY does nothing about making the spindle go the "other way"

    Head stock lube pump runs off ECCENTRIC, cares less which way spindle is turning

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toms Wheels View Post
    If your contactor does not like the 3 Phase from the RPC, change the leads that feed the single phase control wiring. It may be the voltage swings more on the generated leg than the utility feed legs. A volt meter on the three legs should show the generated leg higher than the other two.

    If the leg 2 is control wiring and generated leg. swap leg 2 to 3, 3 to 1 to 2. This will keep the motor running correct direction. RPC installation directions always state not to use generated leg as control wiring leg.
    I tried swapping around the legs already without sucess but I'm not sure that I ever isolated the 240v control power from the generated leg. The MCP works fine on a cold start, but once the unit is in warm-start mode it behaves irratically. I'm in the process of rewiring my RCP so I'll definitely be sure I'm using the non-generated leg for control power again before I replace the Furnas setup.

    UPDATE: With the legs swapped around so that the generated leg was NOT being used for control power, the Furnas MCP still trips during warm-restart.
    Last edited by *D'B=6bk; 11-11-2019 at 01:33 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by *D'B=6bk View Post
    I have a new-to-me 1944 CY16 that came with a Furnas reversing motor starter setup with a solid state motor circuit protector. The MCP doesn't much like the power coming from my rotary phase converter so I'm in the process of replacing the whole starter/MCP setup.

    I plan on ditching the reversing options. Namely because:
    • I already have the parts for a non-reversing setup
    • I read elsewhere that this lathe isn't meant to be ran backwards except under very light loads
    • My CY16 has the reversing feed lever option



    Are there any scenarios where I'd regret not having a reversing motor? .
    I too have a CY16 1943 and I also had a reversing starter. After rebuilding the headbox with all new bearings (see forum post, My Winter Project) I decided to remove the reversing starter. The Monarch CY is not designed to be reversed. Gear bevels and gear dogs are cut for one direction operation.

    monarch-gear.jpg

    This doesn't mean it can't be done and you can probably get away with it but if you put it under a heavy load while reversing, you could damage the dogs...

    My two cents worth.

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    My Monarch 12CK has the original start/stop Westinghouse controls (in fact Westinghouse was the original owner) but the lathe also has a lever operated drum switch at the rear of the machine which allows you to manually switch the lathe from forward to reverse when it is needed. That would be easy to add in the future in your case.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ohio Mike View Post
    My Monarch 12CK has the original start/stop Westinghouse controls (in fact Westinghouse was the original owner) but the lathe also has a lever operated drum switch at the rear of the machine which allows you to manually switch the lathe from forward to reverse when it is needed. That would be easy to add in the future in your case.
    Sound like a winner to me!

    Makes it convenient "enough" but JUST enough more work it won't be utilized without a conscious plan. Also easy to defer until someday-maybe, later on.

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    On further thought, I've about decided that just leaving the reversing contactors in place will be less work than replacing the whole shebang. I'll just have a bastardized setup with Funas contactors feeding through an AB 193-series MCP. I don't see why this won't work and it will save me quite a bit of rewiring.

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  14. #12
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    Success! I kept the reversing contactors and only swapped out the MCP.Now I have reverse AND a lathe that will tolerate my RCP power.

    Overload Sizing and FLA when using RPC


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