Wiring up a Static Phase Converter - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shiseiji View Post
    Cal, a belated thanks. I purchased the SPC based on a comment you made, but hadn't found the orginial posting. Probably because it is in a VFD thread. I wired the SPC up today, nothing. Not a even a flash on the panel. Have confirmed the 240 to the SPC, the first troubleshooting step is to swap two of the legs. Going out to try that.
    ...
    Assuming that you have the factory installed Cutler-Hammer AC contactor (aka motor starter) in it's original configuration, you need to change the contactor coil wiring to operate from either a so called "static converter" or an RPC. See this link:10EE MG Starter Circuit with Cutler-Hammer Contactor - Revised

    Have you verified that your contactor coil is 220/240 volts and that the motor is connected for 220 operation?

    Your converter's "real phases" should be connected to AC inputs L1 and L2.

    Cal

  2. #22
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    Thanks!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cal Haines View Post
    Assuming that you have the factory installed Cutler-Hammer AC contactor (aka motor starter) in it's original configuration, you need to change the contactor coil wiring to operate from either a so called "static converter" or an RPC. See this link:10EE MG Starter Circuit with Cutler-Hammer Contactor - Revised
    To the best of my knowledge, all is as it left the factory. Going to read that now!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cal Haines View Post
    Have you verified that your contactor coil is 220/240 volts and that the motor is connected for 220 operation?
    Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cal Haines View Post
    Your converter's "real phases" should be connected to AC inputs L1 and L2.
    Cal
    Is it documented with the back panel open which wire is L1, L2, L3 so I can check continuity? I have the schematic and can run them down, but figured I may as well ask.
    Last edited by Cal Haines; 07-31-2021 at 06:27 PM. Reason: fix quotes

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shiseiji View Post
    Thanks! Is it documented with the back panel open which wire is L1, L2, L3 so I can check continuity? I have the schematic and can run them down, but figured I may as well ask.
    Duh, just found it in the link. Which I had read months ago, and forgotten, but makes a whole lot more sense now!

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    L1 & L2 verified as the "Real phases", wire 3 moved from L3 to L2, and voila, she spins! Now to get smart on energizing the exciter. Dates indicate she was declared surplus in 2019, so she sat at least a year +.

    Thanks again!

    Ron

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shiseiji View Post
    L1 & L2 verified as the "Real phases", wire 3 moved from L3 to L2, and voila, she spins! Now to get smart on energizing the exciter. Dates indicate she was declared surplus in 2019, so she sat at least a year +.

    Thanks again!

    Ron
    That's a start!



    I don't see a "Send eMail" option on your profile. I have "PM-PM" optioned OFF .as the box filled up too quickly.

    But my email outbound from PM's MTA DOES work.

    Was wondering WHERE in Virginia you were based?

    "PS:" Nothing "personal" I just reject ALL "Friends" requests.

    Never "personal".

    I just need to preserve the operational flexibility to feel free to smite even TEMPORARY heathens ... equally!

    ....And take the heat on "incoming" in good grace when it cometh MY direction, too!

    "It's only the internet".

    "offline" is better, anyway...


  6. #26
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    And I can't see where to activate one on my profile. You can use shiseiji at gmail as that's mostly a spam trap. I'm in Fairfax County, ~ 2 mi. south of I95/I495 down Rt. 1. The CAMS group let's me hang out on their email list.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shiseiji View Post
    And I can't see where to activate one on my profile. You can use shiseiji at gmail as that's mostly a spam trap. I'm in Fairfax County, ~ 2 mi. south of I95/I495 down Rt. 1. The CAMS group let's me hang out on their email list.
    Noted. Incoming.

    Bill Hacker

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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Noted. Incoming.

    Bill Hacker
    Ops, shiseiji1958 at gmail memory like a seive. I only hit the "Friend" to see if that would do something to the email setting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shiseiji View Post
    And I can't see where to activate one on my profile. ...
    On your profile page, look for the word More with a pencil/crayon icon next to it. On my page, it's on the bar on the left side marked "Friends". Click that and it should display "My Settings". Go to "General Settings" to enable e-mail. There's no down side to allowing e-mail. The person sending doesn't get access to your e-mail address unless you reply. I've never gotten any spam from users here.

    Cal

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shiseiji View Post
    Ops, shiseiji1958 at gmail memory like a seive. I only hit the "Friend" to see if that would do something to the email setting.
    Done. Thanks.

    We'll cover the rest to see to it you can sort the "real world" electricals offline.

    NB:

    A(ny) "PM-exposed" email only gets you spam if you have a high activity / visibility profile.

    About ten to twenty every day from Chinese companies wanting my "business".
    I didn't see THAT the 16 years when I was OPERATING in China!

    BFD. I have sorting filters that deal with those.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cal Haines View Post
    Go to "General Settings" to enable e-mail. Cal
    Thanks Cal for the clear path! "Receive Email from Other Members" is enabled. I probably was presented the setting way back when ever. Obviously completely forgotten.

    Ron

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    I regret this can't be moved to the top of the thread, it helps to further understand thermite's/Bill's comments on the whys and whats of Static Phase Converts (SPC). Also note. Rotary Phase Converts specify the motor hp should be doubled to size the RPC. I've been unable to locate any such recommendations for SPC. However the start circuit mentioned later is a 3rd capacitor to aid in starting the motor.

    Taken from the North American Phase Converter Company web page, If/when the page link breaks, use the Archive.org


    A static phase converter is used to generate 3 phase power during the starting of a motor. A static phase converter consists of one or more start capacitors and a start relay (see note). The start capacitors produce electricity across the third winding of a motor during start up, once the motor is up to speed these capacitors are disconnected from the motor winding (if there is a relay). The motor load is now running on just the two single phase lines of power (in essence, the motor is single phasing). There is at least a 1/3 power loss of the motor horsepower.

    Note. Not all SPC have a start circuit. My first, and possibly only, purchase of a low cost one did not. At the time of this posting some manufacturers are highlighting their electronic start. Unknown if these have a 3rd capacitor and a logical monitoring of the start load in lieu of normally open switches, one manual for starting, one electromagnetic to disengage the starting capacitor. If/when someone has experience with one of these I hope it will be posted.

    Here is a link to a Steelman Industries explanation of the SPC start circuit.

    This is a link to some excellent diagrams that show different start options. Phase Converters The Archive is your friend if it won't open.
    Last edited by Shiseiji; 08-06-2021 at 01:15 PM. Reason: Added a reference

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shiseiji View Post
    Taken from the North American Phase Converter Company web page, If/when the page link breaks, use the Archive.org
    I woild have made ONE change to that for clarity:

    As Reads:

    "A static phase converter is used to generate 3 phase power during the starting of a motor."

    Should Be Amended To Read:

    "A static phase converter is used to briefly simulate 3 phase power during the starting of a motor."

    One could also add:

    "By taking advantage of the nature of a capacitor to introduce phase shift."

    Which is well-documented all over the place. So I leave further reading to those who actually care.

  14. #34
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    Another set of eyes, IMHO, is almost always a good thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    . . . "By taking advantage of the nature of a capacitor to introduce phase shift."

    Which is well-documented all over the place. So I leave further reading to those who actually care.
    The dilemma for many of us that we're ignorant. Not stupid, but ignorant even of what questions we need to be asking both ourselves and the community at large. usually important nuggets take digging out. With gold, hopefully, you know what it looks like before you start. With knowledge, to paraphrase another, you don't know what you don't know, and only after digging a lot of holes do you realize the nuggets you missed. And could have easily missed many, many more because it's an aside in a thread that you wouldn't suspect has a nugget you need in it. Hence my question earlier.

    I now believe should be two stickies. An attention getting: How to power your 10EE that has a drive system most are ignorant of & Troubleshooting for MG drive systems The Works in a Drawer (WiaD)/modular drive appears to be well covered in the manual. As you suggested, I'm collecting notes for both my suggestions, I'll try to pay this help forward. Won't be a quick thing.

    Ron

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shiseiji View Post
    Another set of eyes, IMHO, is almost always a good thing.



    The dilemma for many of us that we're ignorant. Not stupid, but ignorant even of what questions we need to be asking both ourselves and the community at large. usually important nuggets take digging out. With gold, hopefully, you know what it looks like before you start. With knowledge, to paraphrase another, you don't know what you don't know, and only after digging a lot of holes do you realize the nuggets you missed. And could have easily missed many, many more because it's an aside in a thread that you wouldn't suspect has a nugget you need in it. Hence my question earlier.

    I now believe should be two stickies. An attention getting: How to power your 10EE that has a drive system most are ignorant of & Troubleshooting for MG drive systems The Works in a Drawer (WiaD)/modular drive appears to be well covered in the manual. As you suggested, I'm collecting notes for both my suggestions, I'll try to pay this help forward. Won't be a quick thing.

    Ron
    Classical "Stone soup party" PM can be.

    Folks bring what they actually HAVE. However great or humble.

    Experienced volunteers select and season the ingredients of a rich stew.

    Nobody has to go away hungry.

    Mind, sometimes there is a surplus of "fine whine" on the side for those who cannot reach the convenient "ignore" button?



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