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Latching Option M-code on M560 mill?

Mooner

Aluminum
Joined
Apr 14, 2016
Hi All-

I have an M560 mill. I've installed a FilterMist mist collection system (480 volt / 3 ph) with a motor starter - works great for mist collection, but I don't want it running 100% of the time that the machine main breaker is on. Goal is to connect it so it is controlled by on of the machine's standard equipment optional M-codes. Then I could just put an M182 at the beginning of any program that uses coolant and have it run for while the program runs and turn off a minute or two after the program ends.

I purchased the appropriate rating Schneider motor starter and contactor (matches the set connected to the TSC-prep lift pump). I've connected the contactor so it is correctly turned on my M182 - and it works to turn it on.

Here's the problem - I can't run a program until I hit reset - so no way to "latch" the M182 in the on condition. Also tried putting M182 into the program - again, it works to switch the contactor on, but the program then hangs - looks like it is waiting for some kind of feedback that the M182 has completed operations or something. Perhaps I'm just missing a variable in the M-code command?

Anyone have any suggestions for me?

Thanks in advance for your help. I'll post photos of the install when I get to the shop...
 
Hi All-

I have an M560 mill. I've installed a FilterMist mist collection system (480 volt / 3 ph) with a motor starter - works great for mist collection, but I don't want it running 100% of the time that the machine main breaker is on. Goal is to connect it so it is controlled by on of the machine's standard equipment optional M-codes. Then I could just put an M182 at the beginning of any program that uses coolant and have it run for while the program runs and turn off a minute or two after the program ends.

I purchased the appropriate rating Schneider motor starter and contactor (matches the set connected to the TSC-prep lift pump). I've connected the contactor so it is correctly turned on my M182 - and it works to turn it on.

Here's the problem - I can't run a program until I hit reset - so no way to "latch" the M182 in the on condition. Also tried putting M182 into the program - again, it works to switch the contactor on, but the program then hangs - looks like it is waiting for some kind of feedback that the M182 has completed operations or something. Perhaps I'm just missing a variable in the M-code command?

Anyone have any suggestions for me?

Thanks in advance for your help. I'll post photos of the install when I get to the shop...

There are some settings in parameters that should do it. Not sure if it is for M182 though. We use it on our Genos lathes for the chip conveyors


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Unfortunately, it is not possible to "hold" an M-code on an Okuma mill. Only Okuma lathes can do this.

Could you use a different output signal to turn on your mist collector, like the coolant or high pressure coolant signal? That way whenever the coolant is on, the filter is on.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Unfortunately, it is not possible to "hold" an M-code on an Okuma mill. Only Okuma lathes can do this.

Could you use a different output signal to turn on your mist collector, like the coolant or high pressure coolant signal? That way whenever the coolant is on, the filter is on.

Bummer... ok - is there a way to either make the M182 signal "momentary" or programmatically turn it off (e.g. Using a dwell or something)?

I could make a latching relay circuit to hold the contractor closed - but i'd still need a way to let the program proceed past the M182 command. Or is there an I/O that needs to be triggered to "complete" the M182?
 
is there a way to either make the M182 signal "momentary" or programmatically turn it off (e.g. Using a dwell or something)?

I think I figured this out... Just need to send:

- M182 M301
- M302

The M301 sets the control to ignore the answer signal (still can't figure out where to send the answer signal). Not sure if the M302 is strictly necessary.

There is a little explanation about this in the Okuma documentation, but is is very cryptic...



As promised, here are the FilterMist install photos.


IMG_5981.jpg

Here is the completed install –*FilterMist FX575 is mounted on the right side of the machine.


IMG_2403.jpg

Added an additional motor starter / breaker and contactor –*contactor is connected to M182


IMG_6045.jpg

Cut holes in the little factory-installed panel - also mounted the coolant return drain line in the lower rear corner of the same panel.



IMG_3038.jpg

Cut a hole in the small panel on top of the machine to install an L16-20 3-phase 480v twist-lock receptacle on top of the machine.


IMG_8137.jpg

Here's a top down photo. Installing like this make for a pretty clean appearance.
 
Unfortunately, it is not possible to "hold" an M-code on an Okuma mill. Only Okuma lathes can do this.

Could you use a different output signal to turn on your mist collector, like the coolant or high pressure coolant signal? That way whenever the coolant is on, the filter is on

hy grdnanthy :) please, can you develop this a bit ? by hold, you mean to keep the code running even if the reset is pushed ?

please, can you share some examples/actions that need hold ? kindly !
 
I think I figured this out... Just need to send:

- M182 M301
- M302

The M301 sets the control to ignore the answer signal (still can't figure out where to send the answer signal). Not sure if the M302 is strictly necessary.

There is a little explanation about this in the Okuma documentation, but is is very cryptic...

hy mooner :) so this instalation works by default always on, as long as the cnc is on, and you simply wish to control it from the program ? so, once you turn on the mist collector from program, program can not continue ?

this should be solved by ignore codes ... however, pls be aware that ignore codes do not always work, thus :
... ignore may not work on the codes that you wish for
... ignore may work on the codes that you wish for, but not the way you expected

ok ... now about how ignore works : some CTR codes work the same :) lets take a lathe :
... turret to safe position : G00 X.. Z..
... index T...
... change rpm S... M3
... approach G00 X... Z2.5

thus, each line is executed after it receives a confirmation signal from the previous line :)

ok, now lets join those lines :

... turret to safe position : G00 X.. Z..
... index + change rpm + approach : T.. S... M3 G00 X... Z2.5 M63

now, index+rpm+rapid are all specified inside the same line; at this moment, this is what happens :
... index comand + spindle rpm change are starting at the same moment
... when index is finished, thus index confirmation signal is received, rapid occurs
... thus rapid occurs only after index has performed
... thus rapid may occurs during spindle acceleration :)

there is a way for index+rpm+rapid to begin all at same moment : just add M65 :) but it is a dangerous move :)

as you can see, this example does not use ignore codes, because it is built to behave this way

but there may be situations like the one that you need, and these situations are not build by default inside the control

here you need some ignore codes, and hope that they will work fine :)


M182 M301 : this only sends the start/go signal
line 1 : this line may be executed while the mist colector is still starting
line 2 : mist colector may reach the start point during the middle of the duration required to execute line 2
line 3
line 4
M302
line 5 : this line is executed only after the confirmation signal from the mist colector is received

thus, there is :
... the trigger moment, from code :)
... the trigger duration, required to change state from A to B, where A is the state before the trigger moment :)
... the confirmation moment, or the confirmation signal, that is an answer that says that state B had been reached

ignore codes, CTR codes : only try to avoid the lag created by the trigger duration :) kindly !
 
as you can see, this example does not use ignore codes, because it is built to behave this way

this is how that example would look like with ignore codes :

... turret to safe position : G00 X.. Z..
... index T... + ignoreT
... change rpm S... M3 + ignoreS
... approach G00 X... Z2.5 +confirmationT
... cut G1 Z-10 F0.15 G95 + confirmationS

as you can see, rpm changing is not executed concomitent with index, but only after T_index_signal is sent togheter with a request to ignore confirmation ; this creates a bif of lag

so that example behaves like the CTR example from previous post, but its durations it is increased with lags, because of ignore/confirmation codes :)

also, this was only an theoretical example because in reality you can not do that on a lathe, at least at this moment :) and the solution to this is the fact that CTR is built in, and you can not obtain same behaviour using other codes :) kindly !
 
hy mooner :) so this instalation works by default always on, as long as the cnc is on, and you simply wish to control it from the program ? so, once you turn on the mist collector from program, program can not continue ?

I think I'm trying to do the opposite of what you wrote...

I don't want the mist collector to always run - although that is how Royal suggests it to be installed. It is another source of noise, generates a bit of heat and I would rather not have it running when I'm just standing in front of the machine scratching my head trying to figure something out...

So ideally, I would just put the M182 command at the start of every program that uses coolant. As it is right now, I simlply issue the "M182 M301" together and it seems to do what I want. Even when program ends, mist collection continues to run - this is good because it can take 20 sec or so to finish clearing out the enclosure. I can just hit "Reset" when I want the mist collector to turn off.

Although, ideally, I could set it programmatically to "dwell" for a few minutes after program end and then shut off... I thought M180 would shut off the external M-codes, but appears to not do anything at all.

Otherwise seems to be working well for me connected this way. There is no harm in cutting ops starting before the FilterMist is at full rpm, so I have NOT been worried about using the M302 command.

The other "feature" I'm not sure is working right now - I would like it to turn off when the machine goes into Eco mode. Now that I think about it, not sure I have waited long enough to test this...
 
hy :) only things that comes in my mind at this moment is digging for VDIN / VDOUT ... also, what said grdnanthy sounds reasonable, but this is out of my experience ... kindly !
 
I had the same problem on my MB4000H. Seems like the mills are different than the lathes with the way the m codes function. I have my chip conveyor and mist collector run from m codes on my lathe. I'm able to shut them both off from the program after the last bar is run. The MB was looking for an m finished signal to keep running the program. We didn't dig into the problem we just wired the contactor for the mist collector to the hydraulic pumps contactor. That way the estop, eco mode, or autoshutoff would kill the mist collector.

My brother is also wired this way. The mist collector will only run in auto mode. It has the manual contactor wired in too, so I can keep it off during setups or short runs. One day I'd like to install the manual contactor on my MB too.

BTW, great job mounting the mist collector on your Genos. I have a Genos too, but didn't figure out how to mount a mist collector on it yet. I think I'm going to mount mine the same as you.
 
I'm able to shut them both off from the program after the last bar is run.

...

BTW, great job mounting the mist collector on your Genos. I have a Genos too, but didn't figure out how to mount a mist collector on it yet. I think I'm going to mount mine the same as you.

Which M-code do you use to shut them off from your program? I thought M180 would work - not sure if it is a lathe / mill difference, but it doesn't appear to do anything on my machine.


Looking at all the mounting options, this seemed like the best way to go. Nothing dangling down below the mist collector and nice short runs for both power and coolant-return. I think the FX575 is the largest model from FilterMist that will fit on the side like this. Other makes might have larger options...
 
Which M-code do you use to shut them off from your program? I thought M180 would work - not sure if it is a lathe / mill difference, but it doesn't appear to do anything on my machine.


Looking at all the mounting options, this seemed like the best way to go. Nothing dangling down below the mist collector and nice short runs for both power and coolant-return. I think the FX575 is the largest model from FilterMist that will fit on the side like this. Other makes might have larger options...

M101 is mist on
M102 is mist off
M103 is chip conveyor on
M104 is chip conveyor off

The way mills and lathes handle M codes is different so those probably won't do anything for you.

Did you have to cut the sheet metal on the machine for clearance for the mounting bolts for the filter mist bracket?
 
Is an FX575 enough for that size machine, really?

I have the same mill and it needs a mist collector badly. . .
 
Is an FX575 enough for that size machine, really?

I have the same mill and it needs a mist collector badly. . .

I think it depends on your TSC... Royal recommended the larger unit for 1000 psi. The FX575 works great for the mist from my 500 psi TSC pump...
 
Did you have to cut the sheet metal on the machine for clearance for the mounting bolts for the filter mist bracket?

I only had to cut the plate on the side of the machine. There is a small removable panel there already - not sure what use Okuma had in mind for it, but it is located in the perfect place for mist collection. I cut a rectangle for the duct and a large round hole for the coolant return bung. Also drilled a few smaller holes for the mounting plate screws.
 
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All our machines with mist collectors are wired on for m8/ thru coolant only. No special code to use. Makes it easy

Ya, that would probably work fine too... My enclosure takes about 20 seconds to fully clear after the TSC pumps turn off. Also noticed that the FilterMist continues to shed coolant for a few minutes after the enclosure is clear. So doesn't seem like a bad idea to run a few minutes longer than coolant...
 
I have filtermist collectors on a couple of lathes. I just have a manual switch to turn them off and on as needed. Some jobs don't make much mist/smoke so we don't run them to cut the noise down.

Dry smoke filter is a must as the unit doesn't filter anything but mist on it's own. Found that out the hard way years ago roughing 9" round 316 down to 5". The smoke out of the mist collector looked exactly like an old coal train's stack :eek:
 
Which M-code do you use to shut them off from your program? I thought M180 would work - not sure if it is a lathe / mill difference, but it doesn't appear to do anything on my machine.


Looking at all the mounting options, this seemed like the best way to go. Nothing dangling down below the mist collector and nice short runs for both power and coolant-return. I think the FX575 is the largest model from FilterMist that will fit on the side like this. Other makes might have larger options...

Mooner, Are you happy with the sizing of the FX575? I am considering mounting a Filtermist on our M560V but am debating whether to go with the FX575 or FX900. If we go with the FX900, we will have to make our own mounting bracket, but I am concerned that the 575 may not be big enough.

We are just running 300 psi TSC, so we don't have a crazy amount of mist, but are just trying to make the operator's life a little more pleasant.
 








 
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