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    Default ABB vfd reversing

    I bought an ABB vfd years ago to power an old milling machine, single phase to three phase, it was a bit of a pain to set up but i got it done. I have fitted a bridgeport vari-speed head to the mill and now need to run the bridgeport motor in both directions.

    But it is resisting all attempts to work for me. No matter what i do i can only get the mill spindle to turn in one direction.

    It is an ACS50 made by ABB, has anyone any experience of these particular inverters, that could give a bit of help ? I need guidance on how to wire a start-stop-reverse switch. I am following the diagram in the manual (pdf below) and it simply will not work.

    https://library.e.abb.com/public/ec4...ACS50_UG_E.pdf

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    How are you applying the layout depicted on page 14?

    Both the run and the reverse terminals must be supplied 10V from the reference voltage terminal.

    Two switches are required . A third switch, that could be a momentary, might be added to enable the jog function.

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    I take a 12v line from the vfd to a switch. The switch is three position, central position is off, left and right have a pair of contacts each, so 12v on one side and a wire back to either start or rev.

    The motor runs in one switch position, but will not reverse in the other switch position, even though the circuit is correct as far as i can tell to the one in the manual.

    Someone suggested that the start wire should be connected to the rev too, tried it, does not appear to work.

    The jog function, which might be nice to have, is not something i care about at the moment, much more important is the ability to reverse the motor, for use with the high and low ranges of the bridgeport head.

    Stumped.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ronan View Post
    I take a 12v line from the vfd to a switch. The switch is three position, central position is off, left and right have a pair of contacts each, so 12v on one side and a wire back to either start or rev.

    The motor runs in one switch position, but will not reverse in the other switch position, even though the circuit is correct as far as i can tell to the one in the manual.

    Stumped.
    Suggest re-visiting the manual, might require reading through it a few times.

    Have found it common for most VFDs to have at least one parameter, sometimes more, that requires adjusting in cases like this, even for functions that seem like they ought to be defaults. Could be something as simple as activating the Reverse terminal via setting the appropriate software parameter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ronan View Post
    I take a 12v line from the vfd to a switch. The switch is three position, central position is off, left and right have a pair of contacts each, so 12v on one side and a wire back to either start or rev.

    The motor runs in one switch position, but will not reverse in the other switch position, even though the circuit is correct as far as i can tell to the one in the manual.

    Someone suggested that the start wire should be connected to the rev too, tried it, does not appear to work.

    The jog function, which might be nice to have, is not something i care about at the moment, much more important is the ability to reverse the motor, for use with the high and low ranges of the bridgeport head.

    Stumped.
    A double pole center off switch is NOT what you want.

    LOOK AT THE DIAGRAM! there is a switch for each function. Run MUST BE powered, For anything to happen. REV may be powered if motor reversal is desired. JOG may be activated in combination with normal run direction or the reverse mode.

    Three Switches! Got it,? Three Switches! Not one double throw center off.

    GOT IT? Just like in the diagram!

    Get descrete switches. Two required if you want reverse, three optional

    The ON function tells the VFD that it should output power.
    The reverse function tells the VFD to change the output order to reverse rotation.

    Using the center off, does just that. It shuts off the VFD output.
    With the output OFF, It doesn't matter which way the motor should turn.

    You can do this with just jumper wires. No need to go out and buy new switches when you are still exploring. If the run and rev terminals are hardwired to the 10V ref. The motor should start and run . You could then switch the leads to the motor to get reverse.

    BUT PLEASE NOTE!

    VFDs are NOT designed to have their outputs OPENED while operating.
    Switching a two speed mill motor does just that (if switched on the fly)

    Some VFDs are OK with it, MOST are not.
    READ many of the HUNDREDS of posts on this topic here on this forum.

    No sense in burning up your instrument 'cause you didn't read up on the subject!

    Are you sure that VFD has the capacity to run your mill motor?
    Phase conversion takes a bit of "over capacity", if you want the smoke to stay in.
    Again, Read this forum on the topic.

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    No double pole is fine, assuming both are open when switch is centered, switch one way closes one pole, switch the other closes the other pole, you just need a diode to do as per bellow, any std small power diode should work fine.

    Terminate like this

    Common, connect both poles of the switch to Terminal 5 - 12V feed.

    On forwards closed contact, connect only to terminal 6 - Start

    On backwards closed contact terminal connect to Terminal 7 - reverse, you also need to connect it to Terminal 6 - start, but with the diode such that it can not back feed enough voltage to enable reverse when selecting forwards with the switch in the other position.



    Generally though i always prefer direction to be one switch, start and stop anouther, just saves simple errors especially with something like a bridgeport were forward and reverse swap when in - not in back gear. It just makes it idiot proof and a lot simpler to add a E stop option.

    FYI for what its worth, this is how my VFD controls stuff for the bridgeport,

    One switch start - stop, this is tied through a E stop switch with a seperate E stop switch block to the E stop terminal on the drive, The start stop also has a secoundry terminal block that energises the coolant, direction is its own separate switch and effects nothing but direction. Direction is set though such that a foot pedal switch can jump it when in reverse to make it run forwards, this gives me power tapping just like a tapping head, permenantly reverses till foot switch changes it to forward motion, made the 250 M5 tapped holes last week end a walk in the park!

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    Quote Originally Posted by CalG View Post
    Are you sure that VFD has the capacity to run your mill motor?
    Phase conversion takes a bit of "over capacity", if you want the smoke to stay in.
    Again, Read this forum on the topic.
    The vfd is for 2hp and the motor is 2hp, i want to use it because i just don't need the expense of buying a new one, so i will use it until it releases the magic smoke. Next time i will buy a yaskawa, made in Japan. I have one on my lathe and it was easy to wire in, and works flawlessly, but i believe people like toyota use them in their factories, so they are no rubbish.

    ABB i will not touch again, to difficult to wire in, and not much help if you are in trouble.

    Thanks again Cal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by adama View Post
    No double pole is fine, assuming both are open when switch is centered, switch one way closes one pole, switch the other closes the other pole, you just need a diode to do as per bellow, any std small power diode should work fine.

    Terminate like this

    Common, connect both poles of the switch to Terminal 5 - 12V feed.

    On forwards closed contact, connect only to terminal 6 - Start

    On backwards closed contact terminal connect to Terminal 7 - reverse, you also need to connect it to Terminal 6 - start, but with the diode such that it can not back feed enough voltage to enable reverse when selecting forwards with the switch in the other position.



    Generally though i always prefer direction to be one switch, start and stop anouther, just saves simple errors especially with something like a bridgeport were forward and reverse swap when in - not in back gear. It just makes it idiot proof and a lot simpler to add a E stop option.

    FYI for what its worth, this is how my VFD controls stuff for the bridgeport,

    One switch start - stop, this is tied through a E stop switch with a seperate E stop switch block to the E stop terminal on the drive, The start stop also has a secoundry terminal block that energises the coolant, direction is its own separate switch and effects nothing but direction. Direction is set though such that a foot pedal switch can jump it when in reverse to make it run forwards, this gives me power tapping just like a tapping head, permenantly reverses till foot switch changes it to forward motion, made the 250 M5 tapped holes last week end a walk in the park!
    adama;

    walk first

    then run..

    ;-)

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    Probaly installed close to 100 VFD drives all sub 3hp, i don't need to walk, its a simple switching arrangement using the switch he has and just a small diode and job done, diodes going to cost more in postage than it will in parts and way cheaper than anouther switch.

    1x 1N5819 Low Drop, Power Schottky Rectifier Diode 1A 4V | eBay is the kinda diode you want, you will know when you get it the right way around as you will have dual direction, wrong way and it will just run in reverse! No need to solder it inline, simply mount it in a bit of terminal strip and bring wires too - from it.

    FYI nothing wrong with ABB drives, there not my first or second choice, but they work fine, just realise any drive OEM is not going to take you through basic circuit design selling you a couple of hundred pound item, they will expect you to already know the basics and most won't deal with customers who don't over liability laws. Now ask a specific question and im sure they will answer it, but there not going to do free application engineering for you!

    FYI yes a reverseing foot pedal is a luxury, but once you have had one theres no going back, simply break the reversing terminals feed in my instructions with a normally closed foot pedal will give you forward momentary rotation for power tapping!

    If your stuck PM me

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    Quote Originally Posted by adama View Post
    Probaly installed close to 100 VFD drives all sub 3hp, i don't need to walk,


    If your stuck PM me
    When I read the Original post, I didn't think the thread was about you. I still don't.
    It was about an inexperienced VFD user who was having a difficulty understanding the logic or the wiring diagram.
    The OP has gone on to say that he will likely not use ABB products again due to the difficulty wiring them up.

    That you can "run" and do useful things with diodes and multi- position switches is really not the point.

    By the way, With a foot pedal control SWITCH and another three dollar single pole-single throw switch, no diode would be needed to achieve the instant reversing. No electro-magic, just hardware and wires.

    Simple is often best, Certainly that is so when starting out.

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    Right, after tea i went out and had a root in my boxes of scrap bits saved for a job someday. Found an old radio and decided to disembowel it for a diode. Open it up and the only diode i could find was an LED. Cut it out and connected it as Adama suggested.

    Works perfectly, and i now feel a bit better about the whole project. I will buy a proper packet of diodes off fleabay, and tidy up the wiring, make everything right.

    Thanks to the people who took the trouble to answer my questions.

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    Can't say i would have tried the led myself, but a wins a win

    Thanks for reporting mission accomplished and a sucesful outcome, so many posts just die and the world never gets to find out the result.

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    Quote Originally Posted by adama View Post
    Can't say i would have tried the led myself, but a wins a win

    Thanks for reporting mission accomplished and a sucesful outcome, so many posts just die and the world never gets to find out the result.
    Yeah i would not have used the LED, but it was all i could find, and i was gagging to know if it would work. I can buy a pack of diodes off ebay, sadly maplin has gone or i could have bought a few there.

    Thanks again

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    Quote Originally Posted by CalG View Post
    When I read the Original post, I didn't think the thread was about you. I still don't.
    It was about an inexperienced VFD user who was having a difficulty understanding the logic or the wiring diagram.
    The OP has gone on to say that he will likely not use ABB products again due to the difficulty wiring them up.

    That you can "run" and do useful things with diodes and multi- position switches is really not the point.

    By the way, With a foot pedal control SWITCH and another three dollar single pole-single throw switch, no diode would be needed to achieve the instant reversing. No electro-magic, just hardware and wires.

    Simple is often best, Certainly that is so when starting out.
    Dunno where or WHEN you "missed it", but diodes have been saving wire and switch contacts, making computing and NC machine-control possible for more than 60 years, already. See "diode plugboards", DTL (diode transistor logic), "wired OR", etc.

    They ARE the simple and often BEST solution, rather a high percentage of the time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by adama View Post
    Can't say i would have tried the led myself, but a wins a win
    You should "get out more often". Kinda neat when the LED is also an indicator, no extra cost or component count. "nuther handy one is the packaged array, RED/GRN sorta ORN where polarity or AC/reversing polarity show-up on a single component.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ronan View Post
    Yeah i would not have used the LED, but it was all i could find, and i was gagging to know if it would work. I can buy a pack of diodes off ebay, sadly maplin has gone or i could have bought a few there.

    Thanks again
    I wonder what the "take home" on this thread might be.

    Someone that knows a Diode is a diode , even a Light emitting diode.

    But is not familiar with what can be cryptic diagrams to wire simple switch circuits.

    Ronan

    Could you make that VFD drive work with nothing but a couple of clip leads?

    Just wondering..

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    Quote Originally Posted by CalG View Post
    I wonder what the "take home" on this thread might be.

    Someone that knows a Diode is a diode , even a Light emitting diode.
    C'mon. Yer getting trollish, now.

    Surely the nomenclature Light Emitting DIODE was never a deep-dark secret, yah?



    Clipleads? F**ks sake.. I could run this b***h off knife switches, T-bar, Strowger SXS, Weco "Panel" switch, ITT Pentaconta or four hundred other telco key, PABX, or Central Office systems, AND/OR telegraph switches, the last 150 years. STE (the telephone itself) hook-switches, too!

    Adama has merely pointed out that all it really needed was an ignorant TOGGLE switch and ONE diode, any type as will support the meagre current and voltage "signal level" power the VFD already has a buffered and protected input to sense.

    Five bucks, American, were all that s**t and a hundred pounds more not already lying about in my "Hell Box"?

    That must be TOO Damned easy, yah?


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