Motion Picture Fanuc m-16i
Close
Login to Your Account
Results 1 to 11 of 11
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    atlanta, ga
    Posts
    153
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    12
    Likes (Received)
    82

    Default Motion Picture Fanuc m-16i

    Hello all... Iím Jeremy, I do special effects for the motion picture industry.
    I got a doozy dropped off at the shop today. A pair of Fanuc industrial robots, possibly 2 of 4 in total.



    The desire of the producers is to automate these machines, on camera... Iíve been clear that is likely far beyond my abilities. I donít have the controller... I donít have the cables and no one is even sure whether these machines even worked prior to the film procuring them.

    Iím fairly certain I can disengage the stepper motors and ďposeĒ the arms. Iím dead positive that wonít be enough for the people paying me.

    This is way out of my wheelhouse.

    Maybe thereís someone on this forum who can point me in a direction?

    Iíve got a week.




    Be safe and stay healthy





    Jeremy

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Missouri
    Posts
    260
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    74
    Likes (Received)
    65

    Default

    They are not steppers

    How big a wallet they got?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    California
    Posts
    647
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    169
    Likes (Received)
    183

    Default

    You can, at best, remove the red caps and turn the motors by hand.

    The mechanical part of the machine is half, at most, of the robotic system.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    atlanta, ga
    Posts
    153
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    12
    Likes (Received)
    82

    Default

    I misspoke. They arenít stepper motors, Iím not even sure if theyíd be considered servo motors either. In any case I think I have a solution.

    Elegant it is not, but Iím pretty sure I have a solution that meets my needs and can be accomplished in the allotted time.

    The motors are 161V, 200Hz, three-phase motors. So my plan is to use VFDs and limit switches. Thankfully this approach also limits the amount of work Iíll have to do. The package per axis is about $250-300. Itís worth $1000 to the producers to see the arms move, so they get to pick any three axes.

    The Drives and switches should be in tomorrow, Iíll follow up if my plan is a success.





    Be safe and stay healthy



    Jeremy

  5. Likes DrHook liked this post
  6. #5
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    1,290
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    521
    Likes (Received)
    725

    Default

    They are most definitely AC servos. The famous Fanuc red caps

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Washington
    Posts
    4,983
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2552
    Likes (Received)
    4703

    Default

    Jeremy . . . not to rain on your parade, but unless you have set up a brushless servo motor with a VFD before, you better have a good understanding of Ke, Kt, flux density, and brake management based on torque proving. At best you will be really frustrated, at worst, you are going to have a pile of smoking electronics.

    I have done this kind of work with a company in Burbank called ďCamera SupportĒ . . . they have some sharp folks who can assist, but a grand may not even get them to hop in the car to come see you.

    Camera Support

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    atlanta, ga
    Posts
    153
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    12
    Likes (Received)
    82

    Default

    You canít rain on my parade any more than my bosses ALWAYS do. Iím sure thereís a world Iím missing. The VFDs I have on order were recommended to me by a couple of guys at Fanuc.
    Theyíre RS-232 units, which should be capable of managing the brakes, though Iíll likely have to use that output to trip a relay and provide the 24v DC for the brakes.
    This is quick and dirty stuff. I need these things to move a handful of times and then theyíll head back to whatever scrap yard they came from.
    Iíll take any advice, but after a couple hours on the phone yesterday with the two Fanuc techs I feel *fairly* confident my plan will work. At least for a while.
    It ainít perfect. It ainít elegant. It most definitely ainít the type of motion control these machines were designed to have... but all I need to do is get a slight amount of movement from three axes and NOT knock some actors head off.




    Be safe and stay healthy




    Jeremy

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Country
    UNITED STATES MINOR OUTLYING ISLANDS
    Posts
    5,523
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    2524

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jermfab View Post
    ... all I need to do is get a slight amount of movement from three axes and NOT knock some actors head off.
    Actually, that is a real-world danger. Industrial robots are often - usually ? - fenced off so that no one can get near them in operation. If you aren't used to industrial equipment, I'll just point out that this stuff kills. And it doesn't even say it's sorry afterwards.

  10. Likes dalmatiangirl61 liked this post
  11. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    BFE Nevada/San Marcos Tx
    Posts
    1,972
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2129
    Likes (Received)
    1150

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jermfab View Post
    though I’ll likely have to use that output to trip a relay and provide the 24v DC for the brakes.
    IIRC the brakes on those motors are always engaged when not energized, power has to be applied to release the brakes. Shame you are so far away, I love slaying robots and would yank those motors before scrapping the bots.

  12. Likes Hardplates liked this post
  13. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    atlanta, ga
    Posts
    153
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    12
    Likes (Received)
    82

    Default

    Pay the shipping and Iíll put them in a box and send them to you... if the arms actually go to scrap and Iím able to. Thereís a chance they go into studio holding.

    You are correct about the brakes as well. From what I can tell, the brake takes a 24V DC signal to disengage. Easily done with the VFD RS-232 brake output and most likely a relay.

    As to safety... yes. Itís a major concern. Another reason to use the VFDs. I will set an E-stop for all three drives. Safety is ALWAYS my first concern. Especially with people who are insured for more than Iíll make in my lifetime. I did most of the design work and my crew and I built the Gremlin Tom Cruise chases in ďAmerican MadeĒ. Talk about rigamarole. They wanted the effect of a satchel-charge under the drivers seat... of a gremlin... with Tom Cruise running behind it. The whole gag was done pneumatically; hydraulic cylinders, powered by high-pressure nitrogen did all of the work. The only pyrotechnic device was 18Ē or so of cannon fuse to put some smoke in the car.

    Regarding safety from the robots... yes. I was fully aware even before my new friend at Fanuc reminded me: ďthese robots are ALWAYS fully separated from their human overlords by cages...Ē Funny enough, my first industrial ďbig-boy jobĒ was as a welder/fabricator making component machine guards in an injection molding plant. I see the safety issue as another reason to use the VFDs. I can vary both frequency and voltage to slow the motors down from their peak parameter. I expect to wind up supplying the motors with less than the 161V and 200Hz they expect.

    As Iím bypassing the positioning elements and driving the motors directly I figure as long as I donít deviate too far from the motor-plate parameters I shouldnít let magic smoke out. At least not immediately. I already know the magic smoke doesnít come out with suicide wiring into delta-wye, spike-leg, 208V, 60Hz shop power.

    The biggest difference between my current world and that of most of the members of this forum is the impermanence of my world. My job is to make these things move, safely, a maximum of thirty times, plus whatever I do to gain confidence to present that much. Worst case for me is I do burn up my spare motors and have to punt. Punting will be reducing drag and dropping weight as best I can and using cylinders to make the move. Then I pose the rest of the arms to suit camera.

    The goal is noticeable rotation plus a knuckle movement on one robot and the knuckle moving on the second. 2Ē-3Ē bore, 6Ē-12Ē stroke cylinders will accomplish that goal. The casting is plenty thick enough to just drill and tap for a mount for a rod-clevis.
    Iíve got a good selection of ďBimbaĒ low-pressure cylinders, likely more than enough for my purposes here. Iíve got fittings, solenoids, shuttle valves and the like. I should have the VFDs and switches tomorrow. Biggest issue I have is time. Iím gonna give myself tomorrow to play with the motors, first just on the bench and then I plan to start with the rotary drive at the machines base. I figure Iíll lock the rest of the arm off, sticking straight up, and prove my theory with that axis. You know, make sure the magic smoke stays in with a load and that the limit switches will work fast enough I donít tear them off. Once Iím comfortable there Iíll move on to the knuckle pivoting.

    If I burn up a VFD, Iíll punt. If I smoke a motor immediately, Iíll punt. If I canít slow the motion down enough and Iím worried the unit will overwhelm the limit switches... Iíll punt.

    As long as I have SOMETHING, Iím good. And the project gave me the excuse to add a couple of decent VFDs to my inventory.

    Hereís a couple fun ones from a car gag early last year:


    Pyrotechnic cannon, hence all the fire and smoke. If memory serves, we got the car on a Monday or Tuesday and I was cutting the cannon out LATE the next Thursday.





    Be safe and stay healthy





    Jeremy

  14. Likes TeachMePlease, DrHook, Volitan liked this post
  15. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Connecticut
    Posts
    19
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    18
    Likes (Received)
    7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jermfab View Post
    As to safety... yes. Itís a major concern. Another reason to use the VFDs. I will set an E-stop for all three drives.
    It might be a better fail-safe to use a deadman's switch (I guess they are called enabling devices now). It is quicker to open your hand/finger to release a momentary switch than to push an e-stop when something goes wrong. It can be as simple as putting a normally open momentary switch on the 24V brake release signal.

  16. Likes TeachMePlease liked this post

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •