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    Default QuickPanel Jr

    I have a Total Control Products - Quickpanel Jr, HMI on a transfer machine that we retooled 25 yrs ago. We hardly ever run it anymore, and we got a hot job a few days ago, and when I went to fire it up, I found many spots in the touchscreen that don't want to co-operate.

    At first I found that if I was up in the corner of my main target - that I could get it to latch in, but today it REALLY fought us, and I am scared that we may not get it to light up again?

    When we finally got it to latch in today - I had just put a heat light looking at the screen, and my help kept pushing on it full time too, and shortly he got it. Well, after he left, I put the light back on it to see if that was going to be the key, but after some time on the light - it's not seeing my "touch", so maybe heat didn't help?

    It's prolly not less than 60* where it sets.

    It comes out of "screen saver" mode right away (touch) and much of the "buttons" area still works OK, but it's not perfect elsewhere, but certainly has a "hole" in it where we regularly push. It's beena year since we ran this last, and I don't know anything about it acting up before.

    Worst is - I don't know how to cheat it? I mean - it's not like it feeds an actual INPUT on the PLC that I can put some other means of input to. I am pretty sure that it would just actuate an internal register - right?

    Anyone have any experience with this?

    Any work-arounds?

    I haven't tried taking it out of the machine and tossing in the snowbank yet....

    I just received the parts on Wednesday, and already the customer is freaking out that I won't have them all done by this Wed. Really hoping to not have to fetch a new touchscreen this week!



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    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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    Sorry, I got nothing.
    Guru might be able to help if any one can here.
    I'll put out the feelers.

    Fwiw.The HMI probably uses some or other comm bus to talk to the controller.
    Better to replace the hmi than the whole controller
    get the new panel coming. Even if you get this one working the next time you won't.
    Luck

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    Is it infrared LED lights and sensors along the edge of the bezel? (Fix by cleaning well?) (You can see them along the edge, and check their operation with a camcorder. Use a TV remote to see if your camcorder can see them.)
    Is it an overlay that you press to make contact between two surfaces? (Perhaps clean contacts and gently smoosh things around to relieve air bubbles or grit preventing contact.)
    Or is it capacitive touch screen? Maybe make sure you are well-grounded to the well-grounded machine, are free of static (there's spray for that) and again, verify clean contacts from screen to processor.

    Some touch screens have interfaces that mimic serial or USB mouse inputs. 25 years old might have serial (9-pin), or PS2 inputs. Won't have USB. I actually have some infrared touchscreen bits from that era, off old tourism/shopping mall info kisoks. Chances are slim they would be of any use by Wednesday, though...

    Grasping at straws, here.

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    So far we have been able to get it to latch in after much messing with it. I have got it ready to go for tomorrow currently. If all goes well, we will only need to restart 3 more times to finish.

    I called Lakewood Automation to see about a new one, and I was told that they didn't carry that line anymore....

    "Swell"

    So I went to Ebay to see what I could find. Dang! The first several hits that I found were anywhere from $900 to $1800. For 20 yr old touch panels! Good grief - what's a new one cost?

    So I googled the manufacturer in Chi-Town, but I didn't find their website, and any phone number that Manta and same could find was no good anymore... Now I'm seeing why these are so $alty!

    So - I called back to Lakewood to see what replacement / upgrade that they would offer. I did end up finding several units down around $500 or so, but before I plunk that down on some other persons old junk, I need to know what my new alternative is.

    Turns out that a new one - with software to convert my old program to the new unit, and a cable converter totaled a little over a Grand. Well that's kind of a no-brainer....

    I just hope that we can make it through the next week w/o having to deal with that!


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    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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    What kind of PLC?

    Do you have a back up of the configuration in the QP Jr?

    Does someone need a Windows 95 PC and software to even talk to it?

    Lastly, does tha touchscreen have a calibration utility? (Most every one I have dealt with of that vintage requires calibration from time to time)

    If you are balking at a grand, very few automation specialists would touch it for less than 4-8 hours of engineering at $125-$175/hr to program, test, and document installation of a new HMI with what you have and that assumes you have a good starting point (PLC code listings with good comments and an equally readable HMI configuration with cross references / tag names detailed.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by motion guru View Post
    What kind of PLC?

    Do you have a back up of the configuration in the QP Jr?

    Does someone need a Windows 95 PC and software to even talk to it?

    Lastly, does tha touchscreen have a calibration utility? (Most every one I have dealt with of that vintage requires calibration from time to time)

    If you are balking at a grand, very few automation specialists would touch it for less than 4-8 hours of engineering at $125-$175/hr to program, test, and document installation of a new HMI with what you have and that assumes you have a good starting point (PLC code listings with good comments and an equally readable HMI configuration with cross references / tag names detailed.)

    1) Omron

    2) I believe that we have all the documentation all backed up on floppy's, but apparently we can just as easily load from the QPJ - as it is intact.

    3) The software is said to need Xp

    4) It's not a calibration issue. The targets are spot on. There is just a "dead hole" in the middle.

    5) You better read again. I was balking at paying $1G to $2G for a 20 yr old unit that is likely to have the same or other issues any day. Then only to find that I can get a new replacement with software for just over $1G.

    6) The supplier will doo the software work for $125/hr - expecting 2 hours time, with no guarantee that it will work (because it is not their software) and could require a field service call to tweak after install. If going this route - we would not buy the software @ $375, and could likely come out $125 better off, but Lakewood recommends that we buy the software and doo it ourselves so that we have it.


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    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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    Do you have mfg/part number of the touch panel you can post? Size/resolution, etc.?

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    assuming that the age of the Omron is such that it is communicating serially to the QP . . . I don't know if this would work, or if you are into learning to configure the new HMI from scratch . . . C-more Touch Panels | AutomationDirect

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    This is nearly the same as mine:

    TOTAL CONTROL PRODUCTS QPJ2D1L2P USED PRO-FACE QUICKPANEL JR. QPJ2D1L2P | eBay


    It seems that the front end morph'd a little over the next few years. Mine was born on Jan 1995, and most that I find are a little newer, and slightly diff - cosmetically.

    I see that the newer ones say "ProFace" on them, and I think that is the name of the unit that I was quoted, but somehow TCP (and later - Fanuc) are not part of it anymore.

    ???




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    Ox

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    also, for frequently used controls - we generally make a manual pushbutton, the touch screen should only be used for setup. It should be easy to find out what bit is being set with the push on the touch screen and map an input on the Omron to set the same bit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post
    This is nearly the same as mine:

    TOTAL CONTROL PRODUCTS QPJ2D1L2P USED PRO-FACE QUICKPANEL JR. QPJ2D1L2P | eBay


    It seems that the front end morph'd a little over the next few years. Mine was born on Jan 1995, and most that I find are a little newer, and slightly diff - cosmetically.
    Legacy duplicators, re-furba-shiters, upgraders, and side-step migrators cite the amount of memory and more that is INSIDE - "personality" as well as capability - as bigger determinants than looks or screen layout, though.

    "Smart" terminal, class of MMI, with newer revs almost certainly 100% back-compatible, but mebbe a nuisance, wasted-time-wise as to optioning the added-on capabilities to just park theirazz and not interfere with older, simpler business.

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    Quote Originally Posted by motion guru View Post
    also, for frequently used controls - we generally make a manual pushbutton, the touch screen should only be used for setup. It should be easy to find out what bit is being set with the push on the touch screen and map an input on the Omron to set the same bit.
    It is not something used every cycle, just every time that we re-start the machine - we need to put it in "Auto" mode.


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    The ones I have around are overlays to CRT, LCD, or even plastic transparency/overlay displays. Nothing so integrated, sorry.
    However, the example you provided sure looks like it includes a PS-2 port on the back. After you're done with the run (not before) I'd try plugging in a mouse of that vintage and see if you can navigate and click that way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chip Chester View Post
    The ones I have around are overlays to CRT, LCD, or even plastic transparency/overlay displays. Nothing so integrated, sorry.
    However, the example you provided sure looks like it includes a PS-2 port on the back. After you're done with the run (not before) I'd try plugging in a mouse of that vintage and see if you can navigate and click that way.
    Well that sure is an interesting thought!

    Not sure that I can find a mouse with that end on it anymore tho?
    Actually, I'm not sure that I have ever seen a mouse like that?
    However - I might have a keyboard or two around that would plug into that?


    ???


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    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post
    Well that sure is an interesting thought!

    Not sure that I can find a mouse with that end on it anymore tho?
    There still may exist the adapters. I may even have some of each, if only out of oversight as to cleanup.

    But if the machine has any future at all, or your time is worth what I'd be billing-it-out at, a new panel makes better sense, time, money, avoided risk of present and future "gotcha" costs.

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    Oh - I agree totally.
    But if I did have a mouse like that handy - it would be interesting to try it none-the-less.
    And if we git to where we can't make it fire up, it would be something to try too.


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    Ox

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post
    Oh - I agree totally.
    But if I did have a mouse like that handy - it would be interesting to try it none-the-less.
    And if we git to where we can't make it fire up, it would be something to try too.


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    Three or four boxes of that old stuff still left to sort - just yesterday found a spare EISA industrial SBC server board backplane from when Pentiums were the size of beer mug coasters as had never been opened. I'll shout if I find anything PS2'ish.

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    I'll shout if I find anything PS2'ish.
    Never played PlayStation.


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    Ox

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post
    Never played PlayStation.


    ----------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox
    My personal Pee Cee, rather. Three dual Pentium 166 SBC's clocked at 200 MHz, IBM Warp Server Advanced, fastest available SCSI RAID, arrays, multiple, eg; many, many spindles. Also needed a bigger air-con, but that's just Hong Kong.

    Optimized as devel workstation for faster code compile & debug.

    OS devel, distributed file systems, mail servers, spam killing, and ... early-days English and Mandarin IBM Voice Type Dictation the 'games'.

    A member of my Board of Directors was also for long years the CEO, Hong Kong Institute of Directors as they were transitioning off all-English to fully bi-lingual training material and all-else, so it mattered. A lot.

    Mandarin worked an order of magnitude faster and more accurately to a 'puter than English. Should have. It is an artificially created language with exactly ONE "right way" to speak properly, and Dr. Tsui Wai Ling, Carlye [1] and her staff had it nailed..

    There is a similar feature as to stroke order and stroke count in their written language.

    For thousands of years, the tonal Languages and mixed ideogram, pictogram, phonogram character sets of Asia were handicaps. Slowed them down in business and science, even getting out a newspaper with more than ten pages.

    Then came the computer.

    Now they have MAJOR speed advantages as to both spoken and finger-swipe input over Western languages.

    Who ever wudda thunk THAT?


    [1] Wai Ling Tsui BBS, MBE, JP, DProf, BA(Econ), FHKIoD, FHKMA, FBCS: Executive Profile & Biography - Bloomberg

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    Quote Originally Posted by motion guru View Post
    also, for frequently used controls - we generally make a manual pushbutton, the touch screen should only be used for setup. It should be easy to find out what bit is being set with the push on the touch screen and map an input on the Omron to set the same bit.
    What's the thinking behind this?
    Is it to reduce wear/damage on the screen from frequent use or just that buttons are easier to hit?


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