Time to build a machine to automate a process, Anyone want to help my first journey? - Page 3
Close
Login to Your Account
Page 3 of 9 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 161
  1. #41
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Texas
    Posts
    422
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    87
    Likes (Received)
    101

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TDegenhart View Post
    the melt temperature must be higher ..
    And with that the molecular weight of the plastic gets reduced and the mechanical properties go with it.

    Real mold shops don't make molds out of AL. Protomold makes them out of AL but they don't promise they'll last very long. I can't imagine they'll hold tolerances as well either considering they expand more.

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Washington
    Posts
    2,855
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1104
    Likes (Received)
    1141

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CosmosK View Post
    Real mold shops don't make molds out of AL.
    Having both made and run, for years, molds made of both materials aluminum is hands down the best material to make molds from. It will draw heat from the part much faster for faster cycle times, and coolant channels are not as critically placed in the mold to avoid hot spots. A good aluminum mold for this part should easily make 500,000 parts. Sure if you abuse it or run wet plastic the life span will drop but the same applies to steel.

    TDegenhart, have you ever run chemical foaming agent? The stuff is like magic fairy dust for a part like this. The only downside I ever noticed with it was the material can get kinda sticky in the hopper when drying above 220f for longer periods of time.

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Arkansas
    Posts
    464
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    96
    Likes (Received)
    200

    Default

    I found a video for the CFA, it really is the magic fairy dust for this part. Im not sure how I would get that to work with an older machine though. I dont know if those old machines have the ability to pull back slightly to chemically form the airbubbles in the center of the part.

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Washington
    Posts
    2,855
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1104
    Likes (Received)
    1141

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by as9100d View Post
    I found a video for the CFA, it really is the magic fairy dust for this part. Im not sure how I would get that to work with an older machine though. I dont know if those old machines have the ability to pull back slightly to chemically form the airbubbles in the center of the part.
    We only had a 1992 200 ton press and it worked fine. We only had boost and hold to play with, nothing at all fancy that computer controls brought.

    How much does a finished part weigh?

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Texas
    Posts
    422
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    87
    Likes (Received)
    101

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidScott View Post
    aluminum is hands down the best material to make molds from.
    Ok, I respect your take on it. I will ask my neighbor (mold shop) next time I get a chance. I have my doubts Back when I was working with injection molded parts, the molds were all EDM'd tool steel. We farmed out mold making and molding as they are businesses in and of themselves.

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Arkansas
    Posts
    464
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    96
    Likes (Received)
    200

    Default

    204 grams with no outside perimeter holes.

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Washington
    Posts
    2,855
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1104
    Likes (Received)
    1141

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CosmosK View Post
    Ok, I respect your take on it. I will ask my neighbor (mold shop) next time I get a chance. I have my doubts Back when I was working with injection molded parts, the molds were all EDM'd tool steel. We farmed out mold making and molding as they are businesses in and of themselves.
    Don't talk to mold makers as they don't know how to run a mold, talk to the people running them. I worked for a sailboard components company that bought their own press to do it in house so I got to do it all. Keep in mind when I say aluminum for plastic injection molds I specifically mean Alcoa QC-7, nothing I have ever worked with compares, it too has magic fairy dust in it. The same compressive strength of annealed 4140 with the same thermal conductivity of 6061. Although I have seen some 6061 molds with 1/4 million shots that had had a hard life but still made good parts so don't say it won't work.

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Arkansas
    Posts
    464
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    96
    Likes (Received)
    200

    Default

    I think the important part to remember is I have an entire cnc machine shop. Sure we arent making molds and I know its an art but so is everything else we make for aerospace and dod.

    I vote for Aluminum, ive seen tons of injection molds made of aluminum that work just fine and really...if it wears out we can just make another one. If the design is jacked up, its cheap to make another one and fast because of the material.

    There are a few critical dims that have to be had, 1 is an OD boss with a thin wall/feature that has to have +/- 0.002 on the OD. In the center of that is a through hole that has to maintain the same tolerance.

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Hillsboro, New Hampshire
    Posts
    7,490
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1762
    Likes (Received)
    5213

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidScott View Post
    Keep in mind when I say aluminum for plastic injection molds I specifically mean Alcoa QC-7, nothing I have ever worked with compares
    David, I looked for more information on the "QC" series of Al mold materials, and all I found was info for QC-10. (like https://www.yarde.com/docs/products/QC-10_brochure.pdf). Are the -7 and 9 materials older versions of what's now -10, or are they different and still available on their own?

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Washington
    Posts
    2,855
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1104
    Likes (Received)
    1141

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Milland View Post
    David, I looked for more information on the "QC" series of Al mold materials, and all I found was info for QC-10. (like https://www.yarde.com/docs/products/QC-10_brochure.pdf). Are the -7 and 9 materials older versions of what's now -10, or are they different and still available on their own?
    I think they are the older versions of 10. I left mold making in 97 so it's been awhile.

  11. Likes Milland liked this post
  12. #51
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Hillsboro, New Hampshire
    Posts
    7,490
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1762
    Likes (Received)
    5213

    Default

    Here's another reference on using Al mold materials: https://www.arconic.com/mold/en/pdf/spiral_report.pdf

    "Why Plastic Flows Better in Aluminum Injection Molds"

  13. #52
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Geneva Illinois USA
    Posts
    6,159
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2616
    Likes (Received)
    2387

    Default

    The three holes on the top surface (in addition to the central hole) are these through holes? If they are then sensing orientation is simple. One place on the conveyor has an LED light one one side and a sensor on the other. If light goes through, the part is oriented. If not, either stop the conveyor or kick off the part off or have an "orientor". The orientor could be nothing more than a table the part sits on that can be rotated 90* with a air cylinder. It rotates one step at a time until the part passes light.

    As to the locating in the drill nest, you have a better of how to to do that than I as you have the part and know the tolerances on each feature. I was just agreeing with Robert R that the best way was to load from below.

    Tom

  14. #53
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Arkansas
    Posts
    464
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    96
    Likes (Received)
    200

    Default

    They are not through holes sadly. However, there is a dimple next to one of the hole. Ill post a photo here in a bit.

  15. #54
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Geneva Illinois USA
    Posts
    6,159
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2616
    Likes (Received)
    2387

    Default

    Can a through hole be added just for orientation?

    Tom

  16. #55
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Arkansas
    Posts
    464
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    96
    Likes (Received)
    200

    Default

    Nope. The part cannot be changed. It's an oem replacement part


    img_20191007_184215.jpg

  17. #56
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Geneva Illinois USA
    Posts
    6,159
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2616
    Likes (Received)
    2387

    Default

    Check with Keyence. These people make all manner of sensors. I am sure they have something reasonable to sense orientation. My experience with them has been very positive. I can't tell from the photo, is the feature by your finger recessed for protruding? Either way, I believe a light beam and sensor can pick it up. Also short range ultrasonics. Are you planning on a PLC for the machine?

    Tom

    edit another problem to be faced is with the current setup, other than a broken tool, you have little or no quality issues. With the off line drill, orientation and positioning will be a quality problem unless addressed up front. Unfortunately this cannot be a quality audit as potentially every part could be different.

  18. #57
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    New Jersey
    Posts
    2,168
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    198
    Likes (Received)
    1205

    Default

    The molding idea sounds unfeasible and the home built machine sounds like a dream turned money pit/time sucker. I'd be looking at ways to use what I currently have available to do this. If ganging them up is a realistic option I might would start there. I will say, it's a bit of a unique issue, mainly based on quantity throughput.

    Or maybe, as said earlier, it's just the nature of the beast.

  19. Likes motion guru liked this post
  20. #58
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Arkansas
    Posts
    464
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    96
    Likes (Received)
    200

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TDegenhart View Post
    Check with Keyence. These people make all manner of sensors. I am sure they have something reasonable to sense orientation. My experience with them has been very positive. I can't tell from the photo, is the feature by your finger recessed for protruding? Either way, I believe a light beam and sensor can pick it up. Also short range ultrasonics. Are you planning on a PLC for the machine?

    Tom
    Absolutely on the plc. This is what I bought so far.

    Products | Velocio.net

  21. #59
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Arkansas
    Posts
    464
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    96
    Likes (Received)
    200

    Default

    People said the same thing to Henry Ford and well we see how that turned out.

    That said, I know you don't know my capabilities or my shop but I'll say this. I have 30 Haas Mills and 10 robodrills along with a few lathes and 5 screw machines. Lots of automation already taking place with fanucmate 200id robots tending robodrills.

    I don't know how feasible it is for injection molding these, but....I do know building a dedicated machine for drilling holes isn't something that people aren't doing...

    I have a part I can do 60,000 pieces a year on....why is it so crazy to want to automate the most expensive part of the manufacturing process?

  22. #60
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    New Jersey
    Posts
    2,168
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    198
    Likes (Received)
    1205

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by as9100d View Post
    People said the same thing to Henry Ford and well we see how that turned out.

    That said, I know you don't know my capabilities or my shop but I'll say this. I have 30 Haas Mills and 10 robodrills along with a few lathes and 5 screw machines. Lots of automation already taking place with fanucmate 200id robots tending robodrills.

    I don't know how feasible it is for injection molding these, but....I do know building a dedicated machine for drilling holes isn't something that people aren't doing...

    I have a part I can do 60,000 pieces a year on....why is it so crazy to want to automate the most expensive part of the manufacturing process?
    I don't think it's crazy, I'm sure it's possible, but is there a better, more cost effective way to meet the goal.


Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •