What limits automation in the machine shop? - Page 4
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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
    Define affordable.

    And a general question from a robot dummy: All of the videos on the above website show 1 operation on parts only. How would 2, 3 or 4 op parts be handled with a robotic system in a 3 axis mill?
    A robot with a precision gripper can automate multi-op parts on a 3x VMC just like an operator would. See this video of 3 op part on a VF-2: ROI is way quicker if you can cut out part handling between ops- if operator can load material then walk away, add a lot of night/weekend run time to a mill.

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  3. #62
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    "What limits automation in the machine shop?"

    Every time I try to set the thing up in the shop, another ^%$#@! salesman/spammer rings the doorbell, or the phone....

    Maybe just set the robot out front to answer the door eh ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Troy_O View Post
    A robot with a precision gripper can automate multi-op parts on a 3x VMC just like an operator would. See this video of 3 op part on a VF-2: ROI is way quicker if you can cut out part handling between ops- if operator can load material then walk away, add a lot of night/weekend run time to a mill.
    Neat and organized.

    But I'm struggling to understand how this is a better solution than a live-tooled lathe with subspindle, which requires no special engineering?

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    This job was previously ran on a Samsung live-tooled lathe with subspindle. Cycle time was slightly better on the VF-2 but the driving factor was a thread runout feature the lathe couldn't time consistently enough. Cost of that lathe vs. VF-2 + cobot installed were similar.

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    Make me an autonomous robot that can deburr job shop parts and I'll buy 10 of them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Troy_O View Post
    This job was previously ran on a Samsung live-tooled lathe with subspindle. Cycle time was slightly better on the VF-2 but the driving factor was a thread runout feature the lathe couldn't time consistently enough. Cost of that lathe vs. VF-2 + cobot installed were similar.
    That Samsung lathe must have been slow as molasses.

    I say that because the non-cutting time in the robot fed VF2 is significant. Load/unload + the chip fan cycles and we're looking at more than a minute for all the different stations. Then there's the sawcutting for the blanks and deburring of the blanks.

    This is not to discourage robotic automation, because had this part been a 4" square, you'd have no choice but to do it this way.

    But for 2" discs that are damn near perfect for a REAL live tooled subspindle lathe (Mori, Mazak, Okuma, Nakamura), I'm just not seeing it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Plane Parts View Post
    Make me an autonomous robot that can deburr job shop parts and I'll buy 10 of them.
    hi

    I think you are then 20+ year behind.
    First we do deburing on the machine or try maching different so you do not get burs in the first place.

    20 years ago they started milling complete art pieces with the robot so a littel bur no problem.

    Most of the time it is lazynes that kills new things because on the short run you can do old routines faster
    then new ones.

    That does not nesseraly mean that new is bad . it is different!!!


    O yeah we walked on the moon en put a spaceship (with robot) on Mars

    greating Bertus

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    Quote Originally Posted by Plane Parts View Post
    Make me an autonomous robot that can deburr job shop parts and I'll buy 10 of them.
    Not gonna happen in our lifetimes.

    Robot makers, futurists, and all-around dreamers would love to tell you that AI will make them capable of that in 5-10 years, but that's what they said 5-10 years ago, and maybe 5-10 years before that.

    Nothing beats competent employees in a job shop. When they run out of things to deburr, they can load machines, change tools, clean out coolant tanks, take out the trash, drive the forklift, sweep the floor, sweep the yard, etc.

    They say there's a shortage of good workers in the US. Bullshit. There's a shortage of good managers who can get the most productivity out of employees without pissing them off or burning them out. And by shortage I mean there are almost none. Most managers suck.

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    Biggest factor I've seen, is that it's never the right time. Either business is slow and there isn't money, or business is good and you're too busy. That's why I couldn't get any process improvements through at my last shop; management would never sign off on investing time or money.

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    Todays' degree of automations maybe still not get so high.
    Money, i think, is a reason. Maybe the return on investment does not worthy.

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    I disagree with most of the negative posts re:automation.

    Within a very short time, very cheap and very flexible IT interfaces will appear to do some jobshop automation.
    At a cost similar to a smartphone vs "expensive".

    The generic hw automation as actuators with sw links will also appear, at very low price points.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hanermo View Post
    Within a very short time, very cheap and very flexible IT interfaces will appear to do some jobshop automation.
    At a cost similar to a smartphone vs "expensive".
    The IT part may become cheap and smart but the 'pick it up and put it in the machine' part is going to be just as expensive as it was in the seventies, when robots were first going to take over the world.

    It's really hard to make anything as cheap, versatile, and flexible as a human hand and human brain.

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    We will have the first robot in place by mid-August, not for tending a machine but to applying a product similar to a thread locker. The application guy is worn out when he finishes now, we joke with him it's like the old game of Operation, he must avoid lots of "shall not's" and can not touch during the application process. Our guy will be relieved from a difficult task and able to work on step two once the robot finishes a few holes.

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    Is it possible yet to replace skilled labor with robotics? For instance, in a job-shop setting? I feel like robots are a great solution to repetitive work but they seem still limited when they have to do anything else. A good "production" solution, though indeed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HiNi View Post
    We will have the first robot in place by mid-August, not for tending a machine but to applying a product similar to a thread locker. The application guy is worn out when he finishes now, we joke with him it's like the old game of Operation, he must avoid lots of "shall not's" and can not touch during the application process. Our guy will be relieved from a difficult task and able to work on step two once the robot finishes a few holes.
    This is a perfect application for automation.


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