Caz 360 HBX Repairs - Page 4
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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by tome9999 View Post
    I bought 10 gallones of Mobil DTE Light. I ended up pumping out about 8.5 gallons of oil from the machine. The tag on the side of the machine says 6.6 gallons. There is a dipstick in the oil tank and it was near the MIN line when I started pumping so not sure why the tag is so far off what actually goes in there...
    How close was "about"? It isn't FAR off - might make more sense if one stayed in Litres.

    You were expecting or converting to 6.6 US Gallons. The French might expect to convert to Imperial Gallons.

    6.6 X 1.20095 = 7.93...

    The remaining volume may be close to what is normally in the system, and/or may take the dipstick's min/max/average range into account?

    My older cast-base HBX-360-BC, the motor end-shaft mounted juice pump and its larger tubing, plus the special apron might take up the difference.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    How close was "about"? It isn't FAR off - might make more sense if one stayed in Litres.

    You were expecting or converting to 6.6 US Gallons. The French might expect to convert to Imperial Gallons.

    6.6 X 1.20095 = 7.93...

    The remaining volume may be close to what is normally in the system, and/or may take the dipstick's min/max/average range into account?

    My older cast-base HBX-360-BC, the motor end-shaft mounted juice pump and its larger tubing, plus the special apron might take up the difference.
    It is quite close to 8.5 US gallons that I extracted. Interesting, I didn’t consider imperial gallons. 8.5 would only be ~7 imperial which is darn close to 6.6. There was quite a bit in the filter and also in the base of the upper gearbox, that is part of the 8.5. The manual doesn’t specify Imperial or not, but that would explain it...
    Thanks,
    -Tom

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    Default Leadscrew Removal

    Next I am removing the leadscrew tubes. I see Pastypies posted images which are helpful. But I haven’t seen any info on how specifically to do it.

    There is a blurb in the manual that says to remove the cover (left end where it attaches to casting) first in order to remove the woodruff key and not damage the sealing ring. So I’ll start there and see where it leads me...

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    Quote Originally Posted by tome9999 View Post
    Next I am removing the leadscrew tubes. I see Pastypies posted images which are helpful. But I haven’t seen any info on how specifically to do it.

    There is a blurb in the manual that says to remove the cover (left end where it attaches to casting) first in order to remove the woodruff key and not damage the sealing ring. So I’ll start there and see where it leads me...
    Tom,

    Did you perchance get a price from Cazeneuve for NEW tubes as well as their end-seals?

    I have some dents on my ones...

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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Tom,

    Did you perchance get a price from Cazeneuve for NEW tubes as well as their end-seals?

    I have some dents on my ones...
    I didn’t get a price on the tubes themselves. I did buy the tube seals from Cazeneuve. The leadscrew tube seals were (in USD) $21.85, $21.85, and $24.15 each for small, medium and large respectively. You need two of each seal. They are the metal rings with seals attached, not just rubber seals. Shipping was pricy at $135 though we did buy three sets of seals for the variator as well as the tube seals and a couple other small light weight parts. But I do have to say that they were quick to ship stuff and I got the box via FedEx (they ship TNT) in a week after ordering.

    I recall an old thread where someone had said the tubes were $700 (I think). You can email [email protected] and ask for a quote. Martine Magnard at that email address was very helpful in getting me info and quotes on stuff.

    The variator seals were $159.85, FWIW.

    -Tom

  6. #66
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    Oh, and I also got a price on the valve body, or as Caz calls it the Double Distribution Sleeve. This is the part I broke the tip off of, the part in the center of the lower variator pulley shaft. The quote was $608.35 (USD). Not cheap but I was expecting it to be much more. Luckily I have the spare my friend gave me but it’s nice to know I could buy one if needed...

    -Tom

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    Quote Originally Posted by tome9999 View Post
    You can email [email protected] and ask for a quote. Martine Magnard at that email address was very helpful in getting me info and quotes on stuff.
    Re-posting that useful contact-info.

    Great news that they even still HAVE all these "juice-era" parts at all! Some later-models included an electric gearmotor drive for Variator control. Further, the current re-purposing of the same basic lathe into the "Optica" uses a very different spindle drive, plus (Siemens?) CNC-servoed "teach-in" carriage control, so that uber-complex apron my one has is no longer related to the new models, either.

    All prices are right reasonable, too - given the EU has SERIOUS tax burdens that affect all their industries, and France in particular has stiff industrial and admin labour costs and overheads.

    Thanks for that!

  8. #68
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    Default Leadscrew Tube Removal

    Attached is a spliced together video that shows the steps in removing the leadscrew tubes. On the last part of the video I should say "After withdrawing leadscrew from left side you remove woodruff key, then inner housing, THEN left tubes"...


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  10. #69
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    Default Leadscrew Tube Seal Replacement

    After removing the tubes I used my mapp gas torch to heat the old seal rings and remove them. I then spent quite a bit of time cleaning the tubes, especially the ends I was going to glue. I had to scrape off the old glue and clean the ends up with a scotchbrite pad. I then used degreaser and finally acetone to make sure they were ready for glue. I glued the new rings on using Loctite 380 (Black Max). I am letting the glue set up over night and will reinstall the tubes with new seals tomorrow.

    Here is a video of gluing up one of the two sections of tube.

    Last edited by tome9999; 06-21-2019 at 08:15 AM.

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  12. #70
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    Default First chips after seals replaced

    I filled the reservoir yesterday with new Mobil DTE Light oil. The new oil filter arrived today. Fired it up and all sounded and looked good. The last issue before using it was that I couldn’t get the oil into the leadscrew tubes. I knew the screw was supposed to turn while filling but the additional trick is that I had to move the carriage left and right several times. Then the oil began to flow out of the apron and into the leadscrew tubes. I was then able to add more oil to fill the apron and tubes. I use Mobil Vactra 2 in there.

    I ran it on low speed for a few minutes and all seemed fine. But after a few minutes it smelled hot, like hot rubber. I opened the side door and the upper pulley was cool. I touched the lower pulley and it was hot! Burn my finger hot! I turned it off and let it cool down. I then ran through the steps in the section of the manual entitled “Putting Into Service.” Basically involves running just the hydraulic pump for a few minutes, then running in both gears on low settings for several minutes. After that it ran fine the rest of the afternoon. Perhaps there was some air in it, or because I hadn’t run the other gear something was amiss, belt slipping, not sure. I bypassed the door interlock so I could watch it run and move pulleys as speed was varied and all looked fine. Anyway, it is running great and so far it seems to be running leak free!

    I still have one problem that I need to investigate. The knob that moves the gear train from Whitworth (English) to Metric will get stuck in one setting or the other. When this happens it is stuck tight and will not move at all. I can spin the chuck by hand (except the brake prevents this unless I release brake shoes) and it will usually come free and move. I need to spend time studying the drawings and fully understanding how the mechanism is supposed to operate in order to figure out why this is happening.

    Attached is a video of the first chips today...


  13. #71
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    Default A couple adjustments

    After running the machine for a while yesterday and today I decided I needed to make a couple adjustments. First, the speed would vary on its own. I'd set the speed and let go of the lever and it would mostly drop down but every now and then it would increase. Second, when the speed lever is pushed all the way down past its detent at the lowest speed the brake is supposed to engage. I was having to force it down to get the brake to engage. If I didn't force it down it would slow and continue to run at a very slow speed.

    The issue with the brake was that when the lever is pushed down the control bar pushes against a switch on the lower variator, pointed to in green in picture below, which activates the brake. The bar wasn't fully pushing the switch down. To fix it I needed to lower the screw pointed to in red in the picture. I unlocked the nut and turned the screw down a few turns and re-locked the nut down. This allowed the lever to press the switch further down. Now the brake engages as it should. I suspect the reason it worked before the seal replacement is that the screws that hold the switch to the bracket are in very loose fit holes. So, the switch could have been pushed all the way up before and I didn't align it exactly in the same place as before.

    Fixing the speed variation was accomplished by slightly bending in the black sheet metal "spring" pointed to by the blue arrow in the picture. The spring tension (friction) between the black sheet metal and green "L" shaped bar is what keeps the lever in a given position. This must have gotten a bit bent out during the seal repair and so there wasn't enough friction to keep the lever in place. The reason it can increase as well as decrease speed is that when it is very loose (like mine was) the weight of bar on the back side of the bracket coupled with the vibration of the variator spinning can cause the speed control bar to float up increasing the speed. Anyway, a few gentle presses of the black metal back against the lever has fix it and speed is steady in any position.


  14. #72
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    Default Removing lower pulley from motor

    Back in post #39 I asked if anyone knew how to remove the bolt holding the lower pullet to the motor shaft. It turns out there is blurb in the manual that describes this. There is a differential bolt holding the pulley to the shaft. You unscrew it normally (left to unscrew) and the differential thread gives you a mechanical advantage to get the pulley off the tapered shaft. This works in reverse as well giving you a mechanical advantage drawing the pulley onto the shaft.

    I used a couple clamps to immobilize the pulley so it couldn’t spin, put a 19mm socket on an extension and after applying a lot of torque the pulley popped off the taper. Then unscrewing the rest of the way and voila, pulley removed from tapered motor shaft. There is a woodruff key on the shaft as well.

    The pictures are from the spare motor and lower variator that I removed the pulley on to get at the valve body. Removing the lower pulley from the shaft will make it easier to store and handle in the future…




  15. #73
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    Default Cutting some aluminum

    Man I love using this machine.

    Yeah, it’s only aluminum here but a .400” deep cut at .004 per rev and 1500 rpm and narry a care. I set a stop about 0.010” from the chuck, no worries, the carriage stops on a dime.



    Cutting 1018, .250 deep cut .007” per rev feed and 1000 rpm. At first the carriage feed would kick out part way into the cut due to the cutting forces. I just turned up the feed tension knob and off it goes...


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  17. #74
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    Good job and very well documented. I'm very jealous!

  18. #75
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    Default Replacement way wipers

    There are 7 felt way wipers on the Cazeneuve HBX 360 at the locations shown in the first picture below. The wipers on our machine weren't in horrible shape but the transverse slide wiper was missing and the others could stand to be replaced. A couple friends who have machines wanted to replace their wipers as well. I asked Cazeneuve for a quote on the wipers.

    Prices in USD:
    1.520.291.00 Felt Wiper for Carriage "_" side: $17.25 (2 required)
    1.535.474.10 Felt Wiper for Carriage "^" side: $17.25 (2 required)
    1.512.372.00 Tailstock Front Scraper: $17.25 (1 required)
    1.532.362.00 Tailstock Rear Scraper: $17.25 (1 required)
    1.535.713.41 Front Wiper: $32.20 (1 required)
    Total $135.70 not including shipping. They didn't quote shipping but if shipping is ~$40 then $175.00 for 1 set of wipers seemed steep.

    So I removed the wipers from our machine and carefully measured them. I drew them up in cad. I cut them on our laser in felt in order to test them for fit. The problem with the laser was that it burned the edge of the felt more than I would like. I could clean them with a brush but that would be tedious for multiple sets of wipers. So I found a company that would water jet them on a machine that doesn't use abrasive. Foam N' More

    I specifically asked for a machine that didn't use abrasive at all and they were able to do that no problem, it is not an uncommon request. You don't want abrasive getting into the felt either from cutting or from splashing back. Abrasive buried in the felt would grind the ways. Foam 'N More cut each of my 12"x12" square felt sheets (8mm and 4mm thick) for $65 ea. I was able to get 16 full sets of wipers on these 2 12"x12" sheets of felt.

    The felt used for the carriage wipers is 8mm thick F1 felt and on the tailstock and transverse slide is 4mm thick F1 felt. We were able to find some 12"x"12 sheets of 5/16" and 3/16" F1 felt for about $35 (for both). It turns out we were able to use a drum sander to sand the felt to the proper thickness.

    The water jetting seems to have fluffed the felt up about 1mm. My 8mm pieces produced parts that were about 9.2mm and the 4mm parts were about 5mm thick. I could wet the felt and press it back down with a weight and let it dry. But with oil impregnation and the clamping of the wiper covers I am sure they will compress back down on their own. I installed a set on my machine and they appear to working identical to the originals.

    I also cut an identical front wiper out of Buna-N rubber on our laser cutter to provide a scraper in front of the felt on the transverse slide.

    I have about 10 sets of wipers extra if anyone would like a set. I will sell them for $25/set. Don't everyone reply at once

    Also attached are the DXF files if anyone is interested in cutting their own.

    The DXF files, one for each wiper, are located here: Index of /~tom/pub/Caz360HBX/Wipers
    The file names are: CarriageFront.dxf, CarriageRear.dxf, TailstockFront.dxf, TailstockRear.dxf, FrontWiper.dxf








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  20. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by tome9999 View Post
    I have about 10 sets of wipers extra if anyone would like a set. I will sell them for $25/set. Don't everyone reply at once
    Two sets, please. I'll email you, next break, later today....

    Bill

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    “I have about 10 sets of wipers extra if anyone would like a set. I will sell them for $25/set. Don't everyone reply at once @“

    If the friend who helped you with this didn’t get a set, I’ll buy a set for him, pick them up and deliver.







    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Two sets, please. I'll email you, next break, later today....

    Bill
    Bill PM or email me your address and I’ll get them out to you.
    -Tom

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stradbash View Post
    “I have about 10 sets of wipers extra if anyone would like a set. I will sell them for $25/set. Don't everyone reply at once @“

    If the friend who helped you with this didn’t get a set, I’ll buy a set for him, pick them up and deliver.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Yes, both Caz owners I know are getting a couple sets each but thanks!
    -Tom

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    I'm about to order a set of caz wipers from a local supplier according to the drawings in this thread (thanks! very helpful). I'm based in the Netherlands, so if there's interest from people in NL or other EU countries I can up the quantity of the order and send them out to you. Price will be € 30,- or less for the whole set, depending on interest.


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