CHIPMASTER belt-drive conversion
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  1. #1
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    Default CHIPMASTER belt-drive conversion

    This is also posted on the Home machinist forum. But I'm posting here also for the benefit/interest of CHIPMASTER owners.
    As posted earlier I asked some questions re: putting a 3 ph motor on and using an inverter only
    to drop the speed as many Chipmaster owners have done when their variator goes.
    So going back to the beginning my variator is not shot-it doesn't sound like a dryer full of ball bearings.
    But it is loud to me, quite probably because my shop is tiny and at present the lathe sits on a wood floor
    with 1/4" steel plates between the leveling feet and the floor to spread the load.
    So I knew I was going to have to do something because it became increasingly annoying.

    So I looked at 3 ph no dice w/o belt reduction-moot/pointless.
    I looked at reeves type variable speed. Our Clausing drill press at work has that and when you
    wind it up to 2000 rpm it just screams. Same problem-not a solution.
    So I came up with my own solution-sort of.
    So lets start with some before pics.
    Pic 1 is of the original variator on the lathe on its own cast iron mounting stand/bracket with
    the motor mounted underneath.
    Pic 2 is the Variator speed control handwheel.
    Pic 3 is with everything removed. A blank cavity so to speak.p1040304.jpgp1040345.jpgp1040348.jpg

  2. #2
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    So my idea borrowed from a lathe we have at work It's badged LANCE,
    which I beleive is just a rebadging for USA sold machines.
    The name they're known by is Zubal, spanish made.
    The lathe has 3 pulleys on the motor and 3 pulleys on the main
    spindle. And because the 3 pulleys at the motor slide on a spline
    you get 7 speeds plus 7 more with the back gear.
    So I took this idea and how loud it sounded when running
    and said I can work with that.
    So on my version I took the spline shaft from the motor and
    moved it over to the intermediate shaft and that allowed me
    to use a smaller pulled at the motor for a lower bottom speed.
    Next I needed a way to quickly/easily release belt tension and retension.
    So I came up with a sliding motor mount.
    With the motor mounted on a 1/4" plate that slides in some steel channels.
    The motor hung underneath a steel fabricated shelf and tension controlled
    by a 5/8" leadscrew and a nut mounted to a standoff and to the sliding mount.
    Pic 1 is the motor a 2 Hp Doerr farm duty, mounted to the motor mount
    with the channels sitting on the sides and the leadscrew/nut asssembly.
    Pic 2 are the pulleys. The motor pulley has the 2 smaller Vees made of steel with
    the large pulley bolted on.
    The intermediate shaft which mounts to the shelf with 2 pillow blocks
    has a pc. of 1-5/8" x 6T spline shaft mounted on the end.
    My new taped attachment came in very handy for this part.
    Taper on the end of the 1-1/4" shaft and matching taper inside the spline shaft.
    The 3-Vee pulley that slides on the spline shaft is mounted/bolted to a spline
    coupling that has a flange welded to it which allows the 3 individual aluminum
    pulleys to be bolted together.
    p1040349.jpgp1040350.jpgp1040351.jpg

  3. #3
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    Pic 1 is of the completed set up and everything mounted and in place
    with the 2 vee pulley mounted on the end of he intermediate shaft
    driving up to the clutch shaft.
    And pic 2 is view of the pulleys through a front access port that I
    made by enlarging the original small hole for the original on/off switch.
    This was to help speed/simplify belt changes. There is also a lexan cover for the
    port to keep out chips.
    So you're probably asking how well does all of this work.
    All things considered pretty well.
    When I got the spline shaft a coupling in I was very dissapointed to see
    that the 2 components had the worst fit tolerance of all those I read about
    while researching this. There's press fit/sliding while not rotating fit and
    sliding while rotating. And let me tell you it was a really loose fit.
    My solution was to mount set screws into the splines of the coupling
    12 set screws on 6 splines 1 fore and one aft. and then bore the coupling so the set
    screws ride in the bottom of the female splines on the shaft and are machined with a radius
    for the most contact possible.
    In the slowest high range speeds its reasonably quiet but in the higher speeds it gets a bit
    clackety which is amplifyed by the hollow metal stand and the wood floor.
    The lathe at work has the 3 motor pulleys made of cast iron and the splines slotted into the pulleys.
    For a lot less play than the spline shaft/coupling that I bought.
    MY final solution will be after I finish rebuilding my Rockwell mill.
    I'll machine up a pc of 1045 and mount in the dividing head and use the horizontal spindle
    to gang mill 6 splines on the shaft with a very good fit and then turn down the OD after to get a snug sliding fit.
    That should almost elliminate any clacketyness and noise. It should be even better than the one at work.
    Because the pulleys have a quite large size range/variation several belt sizes are required to cover
    all the speed combos and when using a speed in which 2 of the largest pulleys in the set come in close contact
    a slightly longer belt is needed. And this lets the sliding pulley go lateral mostly when using the spindle in reverse.
    Again this should be remedied with the new spline shaft.
    Right now I have a handwheel for the belt tensioning sitting down in Oroville so I'm using a small vise-grip
    on the outboard end of the shaft on top of a pc of split aluminum tube and slides off the shaft every so often.
    The new handwheel will solve that issue and make speed changes even faster.
    The best part. The speed range of this set up is 40 to 2000 rpm. 400 to 2000 in high range and divide by 10
    for back gear. Not quite the 35-3000 of the chipmaster with variator.
    But the lathe at work only gets 56 to 1600 rpm's and its a bigger lathe and not as rigid.p1040352.jpgp1040353.jpg

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    Recall rklopp converted his Chipmaster to vfd, I think without variator. Sounded like it worked well.

    L7

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    Quote Originally Posted by lucky7 View Post
    Recall rklopp converted his Chipmaster to vfd, I think without variator. Sounded like it worked well.

    L7
    I use a VFD to drive my Chippie, but the variator is still in place and works. The VFD is mostly there as a phase converter, and I only vary the VFD speed when I need real slow creep speed, like when winding a spring or threading to a hard shoulder. The VFD is an old LG Industrial 5-hp unit built like a tank. The main noise source on my Chippie is the timing belt between the motor and variator. That makes quite a whine.

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    Running my Chippie yest and wondering how a guy can tell timing belt noise way back in the motor compartment from variator? Maybe it’s just my crappy ears that have too much jet engine noise time on them, but I can’t tell the difference.

    Might be interesting to know what an early Chippie with its direct connected motor to variator sounded like. I’ve never seen one much less heard one run.

    L7

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    Quote Originally Posted by lucky7 View Post
    Running my Chippie yest and wondering how a guy can tell timing belt noise way back in the motor compartment from variator?
    L7
    I can tell it's mainly the belt, because the sound became a lot louder when I replaced the belt. The new belt is stiffer and has not yet worn to mate with the 60-year-old pulley teeth. It is getting quieter with use.

  10. #8
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    I also fell into the trap laid by Tony of lathes.co.uk (he hates the variator). Buying two 3 HP VFD's for my Chippie and my Deckel FP2.

    The variator made a knocking sound, so I planned on making a layshaft so I could keep the great RPM range with the VFD.

    But I was very lucky to be given an older 3-ball variator that had been killed by it's ignorant owner.

    I could use a spare cone part from that, so my variator is still up and running. And I am very happy, that I did not convert it.

    As everyone have 3 phase power in Denmark, I have no need of the VFD for conversion and the variator input is specified as 1400-ish.

    The VFD could give me soft start, but it starts well enough. And better braking would wear the belts.

    The main problem I had was, a 3 phase VFD needs an expensive false current protector (forgot the name) type "B",

    so I am saving that expense. And the FP2 doesn't need it - but soft start would've been nice. To get rid of the "clack" start sound.

    So to get back on topic - if your variator runs fine, then the correct oil and pretension is all it needs to last a lifetime.

    If you have no idea what I mean by that, please PM. The variator works wonderfully and lasts forever, but it needs these two things.

    Cheers
    Erik

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    I also fell into the trap laid by Tony of lathes.co.uk (he hates the variator).

    Buying two 3 HP VFD's for my Chippie and my Deckel FP2.

    The variator made a knocking sound, so I planned on making a two-step layshaft

    so I could keep the great RPM range with the VFD. But I was very lucky to be given

    an older 3-ball variator that had been murdered by it's ignorant owner.

    I could use a spare cone part from that, so my variator is still up and running.

    And I am very happy, that I did not convert it. As everyone have 3 phase power in Denmark,

    I have no need of the VFD for conversion and the variator input is specified as 1400-ish.

    The VFD could give me soft start, but it starts well enough. And better braking would wear the belts.

    The main problem I had was, a 3 phase VFD needs an expensive false current protector (forgot the name) type "B",

    so I am saving that expense. And the FP2 doesn't need it - but soft start would've been nice. To get rid of the "clack" start sound.

    So to get back on topic - if your variator runs fine, then the correct oil and pretension is all it needs to last a lifetime.

    Cheers
    Erik

  12. #10
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    Default chipmaster belt drive conversion

    Hi Eric, thank you for your post.
    re: the 2 things I need to know.
    I have the correct oil, but the pretension you
    mention, I'm not quite sure of.
    Is that the setscrew adjustment for the drive cones?
    Anyway the belt drive conversion is complete and am not planning on reversing it.
    I tentatively have a buyer for the Variator, so anything I learn I can pass it on.
    If the pretension comes out of adjustment, can that cause extra/unwarranted noise?
    JUst out of curiosity, how loud should a Variator in good condition sound?


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