Graziano SAG 12S
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  1. #1
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    Default Graziano SAG 12S

    Hi,

    I have (at work) a Graziano SAG 12S that I am planing set up properly.

    It is a bit bitten up. Handles are either broken or not original.

    The tail stock dial is missing and some other abuse has been performed.

    I am looking for the head-stock oil filter (FISPA 015557) any ideas were to find one
    or use a suitable replacement part ?

    Anyone has any drawings for the handles or any other parts, I am planing to replace
    all 6 handles garziano_handle.jpg

    I have only one original broken handle and the rest are very bad improvisations

    Thanks in advance,
    Noam.

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    Graziano parts can still be found in Italy. Not from Graziano but others have them. Look for the thread here and a Name is given. he can locate parts for most Italian Machines.

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    I posted this before
    Spare parts adress for Italien machines
    I do not know if it is still valid though

    It happens to be that rigt now i am making some handles out of steel
    I did have the half round part CNC machined out of weldable steel with a 29mm hole at the back
    The old steel inserts can be machined down to 29mm to fit
    I made a slitt in them were the handle comes
    Now I am milling 2 flats on a piece of 20mm round stock for the handle
    Trim the machined 20mm stock at the right angle Then solder it all together

    Peter

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    Some pictures of the different parts and one completed
    The core of the original handle will be turned down to fit in the handle and then glued in
    They will get sandblasted and painted

    Peter




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    Dear Peter,

    Nice work on the handles...

    Do you have drawing that you can share ?

    If yes, please send it to: [email protected]

    I prefer to do some round con and use standard round handles.
    Authenticity is not my concern but rather setting it properly for work.

    Thanks in advance,
    Noam.

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    Done



    Much better as the original ones

    Peter

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    Quote Originally Posted by noamw
    Authenticity is not my concern but rather setting it properly for work.
    Hmmm, the concept of using friction between tapered shafts and small brass cones, as per standard, mightn't satisfy "properly". The brainstorm of making them part plastic, on top of that, takes the cake for workshop environments! For what it's worth, steel replacements from Ugo were 36 euro back in the day.

    The headstock oil filter, would have expected just a reusable metal element?

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    The brass cones are there only to keep those handles on the shaft Not to take any torque
    It has a keyway like you see on my pictures in post 4 So I do not have any problems with that
    The original plastic handles were rubbish indeed

    Peter

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    Dear Peter,

    I was not aware that the original handles were plastic. That is why they broke so easy...

    Ugo wants 40 ERO for one handle and that is 240 just for handles ...

    When I wrote about con base handle I meant that I was planing to replace the ones we have now
    with something like this from metal:
    handle.png

    And instead of the ball in the above image use an off the shelve M6 x 50mm handle like this:
    handle_1.png

    There are 6 handles in the Graziano 12S:
    5 have the same under ring but the ring beneath the handle in the carriage has a different part
    number, is it different ??

    Also the 3 handles in the Norton box have a 7/32" ball and spring and the other two handles in the
    spindle box have a 1/4" ball and spring

    Have you used the originals with the balls etc ...or changed the design ?

    Again if you can share drawings that would be very helpful.

    For some reason I am not getting notifications on new messages, my settings are ok, I think


    Thanks and BR,
    Noam.

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    Dear Peter,

    Any ideas were to get a replacement filter?, Ugo is unable to get one.

    BR,
    Noam.

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    Sizes are not critical But here is a rough drawing of thehalf ball part I send to my machineshop
    The handlepart is 20mm round stock machined with a 8mm radius (16mm endmill) to fit the 8mm gap in the half ball part Total lengt is about 100mm and the round end is 22mm IIRC
    I smached off all the plastic and turned down the steel back part of the handle to 29mm (top part in both pictures)
    Then glued it on the newly made part and secured it with a serscrew
    I did it one by one so it did not got mixed up

    knopsag12s.jpg

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    Dear Peter,

    Thank you very much, appropriated.

    I am not sure that I have the original steel part in some of the improvisations
    that was done on the lathe.

    If I will be able to renew it I will need to probably improvise but do a better
    and professional work...

    Any way tank you again your helped a lot.

    Take care,
    Noam.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter from Holland View Post
    The brass cones are there only to keep those handles on the shaft Not to take any torque
    It has a keyway like you see on my pictures in post 4 So I do not have any problems with that
    The original plastic handles were rubbish indeed

    Peter
    It's trying to get the feel of the detent position, with the brass cone slipping and sliding when the handle is installed, from distant memory - that's the real problem. Can't quite understand why they'd use that method on their industrial range, when they had far more robust simpler solutions earlier.

    Quote Originally Posted by noamw
    5 have the same under ring but the ring beneath the handle in the carriage has a different part
    number, is it different ??
    Some of the rings will have 2 or 3 dots, some will have numbers(feed box).

    Edit: If there's no filter match in something obscure, Deckel Maho Mori or whatever they're called now, support Graziano...at a price.

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    There is a keyway in the handle So feeling the detent positionion is not a issue
    For me it was a 1minute job for each handle Oke 2 min perhaps

    BTW All the rings on the back of the handles have 1 dot

    Peter

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    Dear Peter,

    I hope you and all you close ones are OK, this is a hectic time...

    I have two question that you may be able to answer:

    1.
    The 12S tail stock does not have a left thread?. In my machine when I rotate the handle clockwise the stock retracts. This is a bit strange as all the lathes I have seen so far have threading. Meaning if you rotate clock wise it extracts and if you rotate anti clockwise it retracts.

    2.
    I checked the play in the screws (x, y axis), I pulled the main carriage handle (the one with the large micrometer scale) and to my surprise it pulled out about 2-3 cm and it got loose. Is this intentional when you activate the power feed it will not rotate and reduces the chance to hit the operator ?


    Thanks,
    Noam.

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    Hello Noam

    The Graziano is different from most lathes with having a right hand thread in the tailstock yes
    I have to check on the handle that pulls out tomorrow
    I can check if the SAG12 has the same

    I am doing fine Just bussiness is non existing

    Peter

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    Dear Peter,

    We say that health is everything.. so first of all take care !

    As for your businesses, I wish you and everyone else that this bad time will
    pass away as soon as possible.

    Here it is also not so good. We have about 1 million listed as unemployed because
    lots of restaurants, hotels etc are closed and cannot hold their employees :-(

    My work is so far OK. We have some government related projects so we have special
    permits to work.

    Due to the situation my boss stopped the purchasing for the new mill and restoring
    of the lathe. So I am waiting for that to change. In the mean time I am collecting
    information.

    Today I checked (first time) the belts and I see that they are wet from oil. actually
    everything else there as well. I am sure that the oil seals needs to be replaced as
    they probably are heavily leaking there.

    Any way thanks you for you help.

    BR,
    Noam.

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    Quote Originally Posted by noamw View Post

    1. In my machine when I rotate the handle clockwise the stock retracts.

    2. I pulled the main carriage handle (the one with the large micrometer scale) and to my surprise it pulled out about 2-3 cm and it got loose. Noam.
    Noam, I haven't used a 12S, but....

    1 The Sag 12 and 14 tailstocks are 'normal'. Looking towards the headstock, turn the hand wheel clockwise and the ram extends.

    2 On the Sag 12 & 14, the carriage handwheel does not pull out. I doubt the 12S handwheel should pull out as it doesn't have "rapid" feed.

    Having said that - I have seen Sag 14 and larger Graziano's with motors on the tailstock end of the feed shaft, presumably something to do with copy turning. They might have rapid feeds.

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    The carriage handwheel on my Sag 14 pulls out to disengage although I rarely use this feature.
    I'm sure this is how it was shipped from the factory.

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    The lathe here, (210) is conventional clockwise to advance for the tailstock. Usual problem is winding too far and disengaging the nut...a bit of a pain, when all the other lathes in use, have engraved distance marks on the ram.

    Can't say I've noticed or ever tried to pull out the handwheel, which might be handy to avoid getting hit in the nuts with the electric power feed engaged. The later lathes have the no slop, pretension deal on the crosslide.


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