Graziano SAG 12S - Page 5
Close
Login to Your Account
Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst ... 3456 LastLast
Results 81 to 100 of 106
  1. #81
    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Country
    ISRAEL
    Posts
    58
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    22
    Likes (Received)
    27

    Default

    As a continuation to the oil indicator issue...

    Today I have dismantle the thin plate of the head stock. It was held with some kind of steel pins. I have drilled
    holes and taped it with 3mm. I could not get out the original pins so I used a Dremell and ground them flat.

    After removing the plate and cleaning it all I made sure that the leak is from the plexiglass window. It was not
    sealing properly. I have made two new sealing from victorit but that was not sufficient. the internal part that enters
    the rotor housing is also 34mm and does not enter.. I have placed an o-ring and after closing it all it seems to be
    sealing and OK...

    After half an hour I came back to check iif it i OK and I see that the window is broken. I have tighten the screws too
    much, the window is old and had already a crack in it. Now it is completely destroyed.. I have to make a new one

    Any way if I am making a new one I will change the design a bit and add a proper location and grove for an o-ring so it will
    seal from the internal. Instead of the Plexiglas to be half in the air it should be surfaced with the aluminum part. I will
    try to get some Polycarbonate instead of the Plexiglas or PVC that was used before. Polycarbonate is much better and less
    brittle than Plexiglas.

    Once I am finished I will post some images and drawings of what I did.

    Have fun,
    Noam.

  2. Likes talvare liked this post
  3. #82
    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Country
    ISRAEL
    Posts
    58
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    22
    Likes (Received)
    27

    Default

    Hi all,

    After about 5 hours (I have a small lathe) I finished the new clear oil indicator window.

    The new window defers from the original by not having large holes for the 6mm screw heads, the window is made out of Polycarbonate. The main changes is an addition of a groove for a standard o-ring (AS568-25, CS 0.070" ID 1.176")
    and the screws do not close directly on the plastic. I also created a 2mm aluminum ring. This spreads the closing
    force of the screws on a larger surface, those reducing the risk of cracking it again.

    I have attached some images 0205 and 0206 show how I held the Polycarbonate and aluminum ... I have a 75mm chuck
    and needed a way to hold it. the parts were held by double side tape

    image 0207 is the original broken window after I added the o-ring. It sealed but fell apart...

    Images 0208 and 0209 are of the new clear window. image 0210 is the hold down aluminum ring.

    Continue on next post...
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails imag0209.jpg   imag0208.jpg   imag0207.jpg   imag0206.jpg   imag0205.jpg  


  4. Likes talvare, ACHiPo liked this post
  5. #83
    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Country
    ISRAEL
    Posts
    58
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    22
    Likes (Received)
    27

    Default

    Image 0211 is the aluminum ring from the side view, images 0212 and 0213 show the clear window as it should be attached to the aluminum rotor housing.

    Images 0214 and 0215 are my hand drawings of the parts. I hope it will help any one.

    On change to the drawings instead of 6mm holes use 6.5mm as you need some room and flexibility when installing.

    Also the I had to drill a bit dipper the hole for the rotor in the clear window and also in the aluminum rotor housing.
    How much to go dipper depends on your own parts..

    I hope this will help anyone that had a similar situation like I had..

    Thank you all...
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails imag0215.jpg   imag0214.jpg   imag0213.jpg   imag0212.jpg   imag0211.jpg  


  6. Likes Paolo_MD, talvare, Peter S, ACHiPo liked this post
  7. #84
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    California
    Posts
    122
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    24

    Default

    very pretty sir!

  8. #85
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Auckland, New Zealand
    Posts
    4,535
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1976
    Likes (Received)
    554

    Default

    Graziano look to have cheapened up the sight glass as well as the handles on the Sag 12S.

    Here is a Sag 12 front, note the steel support ring for the flow window. And I have to mention the unbreakable steel handles again...


    sag-12-controls-02.jpg

  9. #86
    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Country
    ISRAEL
    Posts
    58
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    22
    Likes (Received)
    27

    Default

    Hi,

    I have assembled it all, seems to be OK and no Leaks..

    For some reason the oil does not flow properly ? after starting it takes several seconds until there is oil in the rotor cavity.
    I see oil in the window, it somehow does not flow steady but rather slow pulses.. The rotor rotates and hesitates even worse than
    before my last changes.

    Does the filter has a direction ?

    It has a large rubber seal on one end and a narrow rubber ring on the other end. I think I placed it correctly with the larger rubber
    seal at the inner part.

    Any one can put some light on what I see ?

    Thanks...

  10. #87
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    6,032
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    292
    Likes (Received)
    1622

    Default

    Take the cover of
    Disconnect the oiltube Hold it pointed down and cover the gearbox with some lexan or simular
    Start the machine and see how the pump works
    Probably the vane is not turning freely

    Peter

  11. #88
    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Country
    ISRAEL
    Posts
    58
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    22
    Likes (Received)
    27

    Default

    Dear Peter,

    I am trying to avoid this route :-(...

    The clear window is getting oil in it, I see that, but for some reason it is either not flowing properly
    or the rotor has too much friction ?

    Do you mean the oil tube that connects to the rotor housing ?

    It worked nice before I clean the head stock gear housing and replaced the oil. It should have about 5.2 litters
    but I drained about 7 litters plus..

    I also have another problem that the clutches slip... The gear box had maybe 0.5 litter oil in it and after
    filling it with a proper oil it is now running less noisy but when I start the chuck I hear the clutch slipping ..

    Old machines not handled properly more troubles...

    From day to day it looks like a long project, probably did not estimated the amount of work involved...

  12. #89
    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Country
    ISRAEL
    Posts
    58
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    22
    Likes (Received)
    27

    Default

    Dear Peter,

    Today I checked what you have suggested.

    I removed the head stock cover, disconnected the tube coming out of the pump and used a clear plexiglass
    to see what happens.

    First the amount of oil coming out looks nice. It was like a 5-6cm fountain with steady flow. So it seems
    that the oil pump is OK.

    When I disconnected the tube connected to filter the flow was less. I checked all tubes and I counold not see
    any blockage..

    The only things that I have seen is oil between the rotor and the clear window. I think that putting another
    step into the rotor housing caused the rotor not to touch the window but some more friction. I cut about 0.5mm
    from the rotor wings, those making them a bit trapezoid. So the friction between the rotor blades and window
    on one side and aluminum housing on the other side should be reduced.

    I closed it all and next week I will check if that helped.

    BR,
    Noam.

  13. #90
    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Country
    ISRAEL
    Posts
    58
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    22
    Likes (Received)
    27

    Default

    Hi All,

    I have tested today the last changes that I did, reducing rotor blade width (trapezoid) seems to help.
    The rotor rotate better then before. It still hesitate a bit but it looks reasonable.

    Something else I am wondering if it is just with my machine or in general.

    When I start the spindle for the first time in a day it take 5-10 seconds until there is sufficient
    oil and only after that the rotor start to move. Is this normal ?

    BR,
    Noam

  14. #91
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    RC, CA
    Posts
    2,032
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    212
    Likes (Received)
    398

    Default

    Re the clutches, its hot uncommon for then to be worn or glazed. Or the coils are bad.

    The manual also specs a non friction modified hydraulic fluid. I dont remember offhand if that means DTE, or not.

  15. #92
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Auckland, New Zealand
    Posts
    4,535
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1976
    Likes (Received)
    554

    Default

    General interest comment - I was comparing photos and drawings of the Sag 12 and Sag 12S apron and noticed they are quite different.

    For starters, the Sag 12 apron is an aluminium casting, whereas Noam informs me that the Sag 12S apron is cast iron.

    The design is different, e.g. the Sag 12 feed shaft enters the apron on the LH face, whereas that part of the Sag 12S apron is missing.

    It looks to me that all parts on, and in, the apron, are different.

    sag-12s-apron-01.jpg sag-12s-thread-dial-01.jpg sag-12-apron-01.jpg sag-12-apron-02.jpg

  16. #93
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Auckland, New Zealand
    Posts
    4,535
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1976
    Likes (Received)
    554

    Default

    Here are drawings of the above. Sag 12 first 2 x drawings, Sag 12S last 2 x drawings.

    sag-12-33-edit-.jpg sag-12-35-edit-02.jpg sag-12s-apron-drawing-01.jpg sag-12s-apron-drawing-02.jpg

  17. #94
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    RC, CA
    Posts
    2,032
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    212
    Likes (Received)
    398

    Default

    Gear drive on the compound, sweet. I've been wanting to do that on my S for YEARS.

    Had to switch the crossfeed dial back to the standard one so I wasn't constantly fighting with interference between the two. It's still a problem on occasion, but mostly just one of finger clearance to feed it smoothly. Without a DRO, it's just impossible to read.

    Trouble is, I'd need to replace the screw and nut with LH, unless I could get by with it being backwards. The other thought was an internal gear on the handle, but then there'd be a non 1:1 ratio involved.

  18. #95
    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Country
    ISRAEL
    Posts
    58
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    22
    Likes (Received)
    27

    Default restpring and cleaning progress...

    Hi All,

    Well I finaly reinstalled the lead screw and the auto advance shaft. After cleaning and removing the rust as best as can be done.

    Its not perfect but it starts to look like a machine that is in working condition.

    Tail stock is sliding very nice and easy to move. Carriage is a bit on the heavy but reasonable.

    Drained and flushed the carriage + putting fresh oil in it.

    Replaced the dual raw bearing on the auto advance shaft.

    Tighten the lead screw adjusters and filled oil in the compartment for that at the end of the lathe.

    Found that I have over filled the gear box and had to remove about 800cc of oil. Strange as in the manual
    it states 3.5K ...

    Still need to replace all handles and fix the threading for the handles in the wheels. They are warn and in two
    handles someone used an oversize inch thread.

    In all it is in a nice condition...

    I am happy

    Thanks for every one that helps and gives there ideas. It is very helpful.

    Take care,
    Noam.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails imag0220.jpg   imag0221.jpg   imag0222.jpg  

  19. Likes Paolo_MD, Peter S, ACHiPo liked this post
  20. #96
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    California
    Posts
    15
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    14
    Likes (Received)
    4

    Default

    Congrats on a great looking machine and thanks for the detailed posts on your progress.

  21. Likes noamw liked this post
  22. #97
    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Country
    ISRAEL
    Posts
    58
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    22
    Likes (Received)
    27

    Default new handles for cross slide, tail stock etc...

    For some reason almost all of the original handles are either broken or replaced with really bad improvisation.

    I decided to replace all 4 handles with rotating handles. I purchased the handles from an eBay seller (china) ...
    The handles did not cost too much (about $26) and in general the quality is OK.

    I ordered 4 rotating handles, 7 none rotating handles and 2 locking handles for general use.

    The 4 rotating handles have two parts. A steel bolt and a Bakelite handle body.

    The bolt is about 9.6mm dia but holes in the Bakelite handles are between 10.5mm to almost 11.
    Way too loose. If it had 0.2-0.3 mm play I would probably leave it as is.

    Any way I decided to enlarge all the Bakelite parts. I found an 11mm reamer so I used it. I reamed all
    the handles to 11mm. I turned bronze bushings on my small lathe and inserted them to the Bakelite part
    glued with Loctite 648.

    The bolts are plated and plating is not so even.. I polished the bolts with 220 emery cloth and then with 1000.

    The end result is in the attached images. Not yet installed on the Graziano lathe but will be soon.

    Have fun
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails imag0230.jpg   imag0229.jpg   imag0228.jpg   imag0226.jpg   imag0227.jpg  


  23. Likes Paolo_MD, Peter S liked this post
  24. #98
    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Country
    ISRAEL
    Posts
    58
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    22
    Likes (Received)
    27

    Default Continuation to the handles sga..

    Finally I have finished repairing the handles in the lathe.

    In the tail stock wheel the handle thread was warn out so I drilled a new holes at 180 degree and taped it with M8.
    I inserted and glued a screw (loctite 648) in the old hole and repainted the wheel. I will load some images of the repaired wheels next week.

    In the mean time I fixed the threads in the main carriage wheel. Someone drilled and taped an M8 thread in the dial
    locking and destroyed the small part that locks the dial. I have made a replacement part that holds the dial.

    I drilled and taped M10x1 in the wheel instead of the bad thread that was there. I inserted a brass insert that has an M10x1 external and internal it has the M6x0.75 like it was from the factory. As I did not have the locking screw I also created a replacement screw. The replacement part was turned from free cutting stainless. I did not make the knurled wheel. This was purchased from an eBay seller. I did an M5 thread at the other end and glued it into the
    knurled wheel with loctite 648.

    I have taken a few images to show the work.dial_lock_scrwe.jpgdial_lock_insert.jpgcarriage_handle_insert_3.jpgcarriage_handle_insert_2.jpgcarriage_handle_insert_1.jpg

    The wheels and handles will be installed on the lathe probably next week. continue...

  25. #99
    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Country
    ISRAEL
    Posts
    58
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    22
    Likes (Received)
    27

    Default Continuation to the handles sga..

    Not only that that someone taped an M8 thread they inserted a flat steel bolt (allen) and damaged the small pin that locks the carriage dial. I made a replacement part (see attached image).

    This post is a continuation of the previous one with some more images.

    Have fun, maybe it will help others that needs a similar work to do.wheel_handle_2.jpgwheel_handle_1.jpgimag0248.jpg


  26. Likes Paolo_MD, Peter S liked this post
  27. #100
    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Country
    ISRAEL
    Posts
    58
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    22
    Likes (Received)
    27

    Default

    One more image before installing back the wheels...all_4_handles.jpg

  28. Likes talvare liked this post

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •