Graziano SAG 17 lathe, $.82 a LB, delivered
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    Default Graziano SAG 17 lathe, $.82 a LB, delivered

    Just got this Graziano SAG 17 lathe delivered, I was able to run it briefly before the auction, ran it through the spindle gears before the auctioneers guy shut me down. really didn't think I'd get it, but at 1050.00 hammer price, I think I did ok..

    img_9457.jpg img_9459.jpg img_9460.jpg

    It didn't have much in the way of tooling, 2 3 jaw chucks, a drill chuck, that steady, a Royal lever collet closer (minus spindle adapters and collets), BUT, I did find the change gears, 28 of them! that includes 9 with internal splines that must be for the gearbox.

    ok, its not perfect, the leadscrew has some wear on it, (I'll post photos of that), the cross slide has about 35 thou backlash, and the spindle has .0005 play, at least. any tips on tightening that up would be appreciated.

    the ways look good, the gears too, (opened up the headstock).

    I'd like to get an original paper copy of the manual, (don't mind paying 80 bucks + if I have to), do ya'll have any recommendations on the best source for that? thanks, Cy.
    Last edited by cyanidekid; 01-20-2019 at 12:38 PM. Reason: corrected spindle play

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    P.S. I probably have some extra gears there, when I get the manual and work out what a complete set is comprised of, I will likely offer them for sale here.

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    Grats on the find! here in the old world auctions you have to really fight for lathes at auctions, rarely see any kind sell for less than 1,5k + fees, usually has no tooling with it (might be auctioned off separately)

    The French site has the manual for the 14 - Graziano SAG 14 (+ 17)

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    Quote Originally Posted by cyanidekid View Post
    ...the spindle has 5 thou TIR, at least. any tips on tightening that up would be appreciated.
    .005" TIR, Really? OR, .0005"? Where on the spindle nose are you reading that? Did you check other places as well? That seems like a huge amount to attribute to loose bearings. Bent spindle maybe?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Derek Smalls View Post
    .005" TIR, Really? OR, .0005"? Where on the spindle nose are you reading that? Did you check other places as well? That seems like a huge amount to attribute to loose bearings. Bent spindle maybe?
    good lord, bent spindle, don't say that! no, I don't think so, it is just loose bearings I hope. yes, alas its .005, but that is about 10" out from the bearings, so its not that much in reality. maybe .003?

    I put a 18" piece of 1" shafting in the chuck, indicator right by the chuck, and pushed/pulled on the end of it with 50 lbs or so of force. chuck seems tight on the spindle, doubt I'm bending the rod much.

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    OH, by TIR I thought you meant you put an indicator on the spindle nose and saw that much run out as you rotated the spindle. Ok, you're measuring play in the bearings. Yes, that still seems like an awful lot, but yes, can be taken up with adjustment.

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    ha! well I put the indicator where I should have in the first place, on the spindle it's self of corse, on the nose by the D1 cams, and I stand corrected, it IS .0005. the chuck must be a bit loose, that is really good to see, but still can use a bit of adjustment.

    P.S. yes, you are correct, that's play not really TIR.

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    When you run the lathe in the forward direction, put a finger on the window of the sight glass to the upper right of the speed dial. You should feel this pulsate. If you don't the lubrication pump is not feeding lube oil to the headstock. reverse 2 wires on the incoming 3ph will fix this.

    I have a Sag14. Absolutely outstanding lathe. Assuming you can tighten up the spindle you will be more than happy with it.

    What's the condition of the ways under the covers? Mine are mint, but I've seen a few that are worn.

    The resevoir that's under the saddle can get filled with cutting oil if your not carefull. Some people have had to drop the resevoir down to clean old soluble oil out of the resevoir.

    When it's cold and when you have it in a low rpm range but spindle disengaged, if the spindle spins lowly it's normal, there's some drag in the clutch. Every one I've ever run does this.

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    thank you tri, I had seen you post that trick on another thread, and when I ran it I DID put my finger on the window, and felt the pulse, that was a key deciding factor in my purchase.

    the ways are good, nothing decernable wear wise with a fingernail.

    I will clean out the saddle reservoir, among other things, for sure. biggest challenge is to tighten up that cross slide..

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    Either as is the usual process on there, it was stolen or Ducbertus has uploaded the manual for the 210 onto usinages, which is the modern equivalent of the 17. There's a host of tolerances you should expect in the front of that manual, if the thing is in good shape....which you may need to translate from German. Vaguely remember someone in the far distant days on here, walking through the process of adjusting the spindle bearings, but it's not like they're very much unique in that process.

    17 change gears sound like the full complement - which must rate as a miracle on an auction bought lathe! There's probably half as many again additional optional gears for obscure threads too.

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    yes, it was a small miracle to find the gears. I had asked the shop owners (maybe the son of the original guy) if they had any gears for it, he said "no, only what's on it" but with a little sleuthing, a box of gears, wrapped in a Monday Jan. 25th, 1988 News Day newspaper showed up. I knew they were around somewhere.

    P.S. some are duplicates for sure, it's almost like this was the last one the dealer sold, so he threw in every Graziano gear he had left.

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    That would be one for the books, a 30 year save - would have been our bicentennial over here too when the were wrapped up!

    Some combinations require 2 of the same gear, if I'm recalling correctly, so I might check that first before selling them off. Contrary to the previous post, when I had 17 on the brain, you might have the original set with the oddball ones thrown in, if there's 28.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BillE View Post
    That would be one for the books, a 30 year save - would have been our bicentennial over here too when the were wrapped up!

    Some combinations require 2 of the same gear, if I'm recalling correctly, so I might check that first before selling them off. Contrary to the previous post, when I had 17 on the brain, you might have the original set with the oddball ones thrown in, if there's 28.
    A save for sure! No doubt they were headed to scrap if I hadn’t found them.
    Here is a shot of the inside of the headstock showing the speed selector cam.

    image.jpg

    6 of the loose gears found are splined, they must be for the inside of the unit, not change gears, and yes, thanks, I will be sure to find out which are “standard duplicates” before selling any off. I think the 20 Tooth 2 pitch is one, but I think I have 4 of those, total.

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    Just a little progress post, got the under-saddle way sump dropped and cleaned out, some stinky goo in there!

    594df28e-48f2-40ab-8cd4-ecca591278c7.jpg 742494d7-2f38-4b57-8a9a-0e3b25c526d9.jpg

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    Weird, those pics ^^^ came out tiny compared to your earlier ones.

    The gears might be the feed box, recall most of those were splined, last I was in there.

    Found that 210 manual CD. Either it or new volumes of Adobe are glitchy and it wouldn't open properly, but a few pages in, got to the spec sheet, max permissible runout at the nose was .0004" and .0012" @12" if I've converted and translated correctly!

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    Quote Originally Posted by BillE View Post
    Weird, those pics ^^^ came out tiny compared to your earlier ones.

    The gears might be the feed box, recall most of those were splined, last I was in there.

    Found that 210 manual CD. Either it or new volumes of Adobe are glitchy and it wouldn't open properly, but a few pages in, got to the spec sheet, max permissible runout at the nose was .0004" and .0012" @12" if I've converted and translated correctly!
    Yes , sorry I posted those from my phone. For others trying to extract that sump in the future, that tapered handle with the ball unscrews from the pump shaft to disassemble. It might take a little heat to loosen it up.
    Bill thanks for finding that, but if I am tightening it up, I think I need the minimum number, which would also depend on how warm it was, but it’s probably around .0001 after running it for a bit? Or do you go by “feel”? (Turning by hand in neutral?)
    Probably the same or similar as other Gammet bearing fitted D1-6 spindles?

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    Quote Originally Posted by cyanidekid View Post
    Bill thanks for finding that, but if I am tightening it up, I think I need the minimum number, which would also depend on how warm it was, but it’s probably around .0001 after running it for a bit? Or do you go by “feel”? (Turning by hand in neutral?)
    Probably the same or similar as other Gammet bearing fitted D1-6 spindles?
    No minimum number have I! No nice round metric numbers as printed, but Ducbertus's mate's lathe came in at .000157 and .0004 respectively, ex factory going by the test report.

    Possibly one of the sag 12 boys here adjusted spindle bearings and had a write-up a long time back, but the Grazianos wouldn't be unique in the way they adjust - and others are far better qualified to comment. I might get a cheap IR thermometer if anything like me though. Either my hands are too calloused or welding burnt, I'm not able to judge particularly well how hot is too hot, short of skin peeling off.

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    Well, got into the cross slide and cleaned it up a bit, and tightened the split nut. It was very loose, and I was able to take that up and now I’m at about .010 backlash. Not bad!

    a564942b-105d-476e-9e87-5671e1513502.jpg cb4e1285-85a5-42f4-8509-6019e19773ca.jpg

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    Don’t have the manual yet, What goes in the dovetail slot on the right side of the saddle?

    ed884576-7c95-4b88-ac3b-e79c08169d3c.jpg

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    The slot allows you to adjust the position of the compound slide along the cross slide for larger or smaller work pieces.


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