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Graziano SAG210 Metric change gears...

79Jimmy

Plastic
Joined
Oct 17, 2007
Location
Richmond, BC
Just wondering if anyone has a set of change gears of a Graziano? A SAG210 to be exact, but maybe they are the same for other models? I dont know how much luck I'll have finding these gears so as an alternate I am wondering if anyone has the specs on these gears? Tooth count, module, diameters etc? These gears are the only thing I didnt get when I bought this lathe and I now have a need for them. Is a carrier needed for these gears, I think some call it a banjo? I can make what I need but it would be great to have a place to start or copy.
Thank you

James
 
James,

Hopefully a Sag 210 owner will be able to list the correct gears, but here are some Sag 210 photos I have saved over the years. I can't recall who owns these lathes, but forum members I think.

If you look on your lathe's screw cutting charts you will see a diagram showing what gears are required for all of the threads per inch/pitches listed.

I am assuming you must have some gears fitted?

From my photos it looks like the simple gear train is 20-58-80 and the compound gear train is 24-64, 67-64.

You can see on the photos that the intermediate stud is carried by a slotted banjo (if that's the term). It looks to have two slots (side-by-side) to allow for various sizes.

I can tell you what gears the Sag 14 uses, but they are not the same tooth count as the Sag 210. The Sag 14 uses 20-40-80 for it's simple gear train or 31-58, 47-64 for its compound train. Then there are extra gears supplied for special pitches.

Apologies if you have already figured out all of the above :o

13.jpg 210n 25.jpg 210n 27.jpg 210n 28.jpg
 
I think the likelihood of someone having them isn't very good. Last ones offered here, were a couple of years back for a 17 which shares with the 210 - and possibly the 14 too if I recall? They were "special cogs" on a 210 and produced oddball pitches, maybe something you'd use in a clock.

I can understand the loss of gears over the years, the banjo going AWOL must have required quite an effort though, sheesh.



Peter, was there a difference between single and 2 speed machines? I've saved this at some stage, probably from here -



Possibly get some detail on the gears if there's no great rush, that lathe is boxed in by a few tonnes of rubbish at the moment.
 
Thank you Gentlemen, I am currently running the standard 20 58 80 gears on the banjo. I wasnt sure if a separate one was needed to run the various change gears. Doesnt appear to be the case. If figured finding a set would be near impossible but thought it couldn't hurt to ask. Is there a way to determine the module and pressure angle of the gears I already have? I believe the 14 tooth gears in my compound are 1.75 module, not sure how I came to that conclusion though lol. Thanks guys
 
Ah, couldn't believe the banjo would go missing! Removal of the spacers to run the compound gears is pretty much the only thing required - stockers here too.

The pic of the gears up above had this comment back when -

johnoder said:
Good comparison - 20 degree PA top, 14.5 PA bottom

Graziano makes high-end supercar gearboxes now, longshot, maybe they still have the specs.:scratchchin:

Sounds like you don't have a manual?
 
Graziano makes high-end supercar gearboxes now, longshot, maybe they still have the specs.

Bill,

I did some internet searching a while back on this subject and I couldn't find any connection between the gearbox manufacturer and the lathe manufacturer (apart from similar names and nice gearboxes). Graziano lathes have always been made in Tortona and still are I believe (part of DMG), while the transmission company has always been at Turin and (perhaps later?) Cuneo (according to their website). This latter company was founded in 1951. (Oerlikon Graziano website).

I think the lathe-co.uk website has removed mention of this (after I pointed this out). Always happy to be proven wrong though!
:)
 
I wrote to Ugo Montagano and received a reply the next day about SAG 14 parts... in English.

Ugo Montagano <[email protected]>

Dear Chuck,

Thank you for your inquiry.

Unfortunately, the three requested parts (Bushing spindle taper, cover, steady rest) are no more available.

For other parts as clutches, brakes, gears, etc. no problem. Please note I supply spare parts for all Italian lathes.

Best regards

Ugo


Very polite nice guy!

Happy Thanksgiving,

Chuck
 


Bill,

I did some internet searching a while back on this subject and I couldn't find any connection between the gearbox manufacturer and the lathe manufacturer (apart from similar names and nice gearboxes). Graziano lathes have always been made in Tortona and still are I believe (part of DMG), while the transmission company has always been at Turin and (perhaps later?) Cuneo (according to their website). This latter company was founded in 1951. (Oerlikon Graziano website).

I think the lathe-co.uk website has removed mention of this (after I pointed this out). Always happy to be proven wrong though!
:)

Yes, you're right Peter, doh. Surprisingly, have found DMG locally to be helpful when I wasn't expecting much for a legacy machine, maybe a bridge too far to ask them for the gear specs though.......and a sharp intake of breath required if buying a gear from that source too!

Oh, probably not clear on the quote attributed to John Oder either, there was another pic of some other gears - which I didn't save.
 
Interesting stuff guys, I wonder if way wipers are something worth pursuing from Ugo...
Anyway, I did some measuring and from what I can gather they are 2 module and 20 degree PA. I may just invest in a couple of ebay involute cutters and make a few from aluminum as they wont see much use day to day.
 
Ugo is a very nice gent and replies back quickly, however I'd just throw out there that the prices on anything he has are quite steep (as is shipping). I was after a gear-set as well, however after getting some quotes on much less significant parts, I'd be better off making them or having them made.
 
Originals are no longer available from anyone. Might be lucky, although can't imagine there's much demand, there's a North American agent for the aftermarket ones supplied now though.

Pain not being able to upload a 2 page pdf too!

The cross-slide is VAJ E210
I can't remember them being reversible, but the factory seems to say so.
Rears VAJ L30
Early 60/30 front prismatic VAJ D324
Later 45 degree version, VAJ G72
 
Did you find the SAG 12 change gears? I have an identical lathe but I am missing the metric change gears located under the left cover. I need the 31, 47, 58 and 64 tooth gears. If you have these gears, I would like to buy them from you. The inch gears I have at 20, 51 and 80 tooth.
 








 
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