Which machine might this copy turning attachment fit?

This thing (not the plug) comes from a german trade school.
So statistically it should be a Weiler part (90%).
My Weiler Matador does not not have the necessary attachment points.
Maybe someone recognizes it.

IMG_1538 by Martin Peitz, on Flickr

Might be a Sauter but you are missing so much kinda moot point. I had two of them from Schaublin 135 lathes I auctioned off a few months ago..

https://www.bidspotter.com/en-us/au...0064/lot-60d01d07-e674-4d54-a20e-aba9017ae808

In my case one was a between centers tracer bar and the other would follow a sheet metal (or plastic or whatever really) flat template

(as an aside this is the first time I'm looking at those photos closely and notice the auctioneer included a really nice angle table and collet closer that had nothing to do with the tracers ....aagggah ! I was so overwhelmed by all the "stuff" I didn't even remember I owned at the time I didn't notice.... )

I have the other stuff, but from a different source.
It seem generic, but with an adapter plate for a Colchester.
But your link shows exactly what I have.
Its very unlikely though its from a Schaublin.
No way a school in Germany would have that.

Martin P said:

Its very unlikely though its from a Schaublin.
No way a school in Germany would have that.

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Right but the point is it doesn't "have" to be from any specific lathe make or model. Even if it was originally on a Weiler that doesn't mean the next Weiler would have the tapped holes to receive it in exactly the same position. These were custom mount situations.

Martin P said:

This thing (not the plug) comes from a german trade school.
So statistically it should be a Weiler part (90%).
My Weiler Matador does not not have the necessary attachment points.
Maybe someone recognizes it.

IMG_1538 by Martin Peitz, on Flickr

Click to expand...

Not saying it has anything WHATSOEVER to do with a tracer-heritage Cazeneuve HBX-360, but.. given there are paired rails ~ 4 feet long down the rear vertical wall of the bed that form a broad-slot Tee wanting a roughly 2 1/16" plate about 1/4" thick by "however convenient" long?

Bolt on would be a coupla plates as "tee nuts", cut, drilled, and tapped.
Doesn't get a lot more painless as far as "custom" mounts go.

Scroll WELL down this page- just below the shot of dual hydraulic slides - for some photos. The rails are slightly different on the HBX-360, but mounting what you have - even though it does NOT look like Cazeneuve OEM - would be easy to either:

Cazeneuve Lathes Page 2

It might not even be too far off the position where the Cazeneuve tracer expected its template, given one of the versions of the tracers they used had a proprietary and patented extension snout on the spool valve with a pushrod and angled surface, others, not.

Even if NOT a fit? There is adjustment built into the device of its own.

All it would take to adjust the height centerline w/r to the ways would be a couple of flat plates, drilled and tapped. IOW - it is about as basic and "universal" a gadget as such things get, is it not?

Did any others among the Euro lathes also have a rear-bed wall accessory rail set for tracers, taper-turning attachment bed-equivalant anchor clamp, etc?

I think some did have?

Those are some impressive installations.

I do not intend to use the tracer, it would just help with selling if the origin were more clear.
Years ago I bought a brand new Sauter tracer, missing the parts I now found. So now I have a set. I still have to check the back sides of my other lathes to see what provisions they have there.

I also have a conical turning attachment for my Matador, but it does not fit since my machine was not ordered like that from the factory. It is missing the T-slots on the saddle. Not important really, but would have been cool.

The point is that not every Weiler allows for every option if not so ordered.

Martin P said:

Those are some impressive installations.

I do not intend to use the tracer, it would just help with selling if the origin were more clear.
Years ago I bought a brand new Sauter tracer, missing the parts I now found. So now I have a set. I still have to check the back sides of my other lathes to see what provisions they have there.

I also have a conical turning attachment for my Matador, but it does not fit since my machine was not ordered like that from the factory. It is missing the T-slots on the saddle. Not important really, but would have been cool.

The point is that not every Weiler allows for every option if not so ordered.

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By the nature of tracers, the follower's stylus exerts rather little stress, so..
It would not be rocket science to MOUNT a rail or pair-of.

Say the usuall suspect for material of unistrut or aluminium extrusions?

I have "one and a half"used Mimik UT2 that I have "intentions" (the sort that come with a vintage "Standard Oil" roadmap to Hell..) of attempting to adapt to the HBX-360 to restore at least partial tracer functionality.

Not that I need it. Simply because it is sooo close in size and conformation that I think I can.

They CAN also serve as basic taper attachments.

Hoses were perishing. But those are commodity or readily made-up items.'

The topslide with tracer control valve were very nearly the only major parts missing. Still had the onboard hydraulic pump and fluid in the inbuilt tank.

Since you mention hydraulic hoses..
I just replaced all the hoses on a forklift, simply because they were so cheap.
The prices were normally 4 Euro per end and 10 Euro per meter.
This was through an online "hose configurator".
So for like 200 E I re-hosed an entire forklift, incl. some big ones.

They would have scalped me locally.

Martin P said:

Since you mention hydraulic hoses..
I just replaced all the hoses on a forklift, simply because they were so cheap.
The prices were normally 4 Euro per end and 10 Euro per meter.
This was through an online "hose configurator".
So for like 200 E I re-hosed an entire forklift, incl. some big ones.

They would have scalped me locally.

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Serious bargain for where you are. More common, here.

Just checked the back of my Weiler LZ 280, but no mounting points. Handle style is the same though. A brochure I have lists only hydraulic copying attachments for Matador and Condor and they look nowhere near your photo.

Piek said:

Just checked the back of my Weiler LZ 280, but no mounting points. Handle style is the same though. A brochure I have lists only hydraulic copying attachments for Matador and Condor and they look nowhere near your photo.

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How about other lathes, Nederlands-built? Very, very, long time since tracers were a "big deal".

Whom and where the likely users? Firearms barrel contouring? Belgian? Custom gunmakers? What else, a rig longer than most?

Since this out of a government procured trade school shop, it should be Weiler.
But I have seen an occasional VDF. That would be more chunky though.
In company run teaching shops, that may be more broke, I have seen TOS and EMCO.
This school was not broke and is right on the footsteps of Benz, Porsche, Bosch,....
There was another almost identical unit in grey too.
I still bet Weiler.

Martin P said:

Since this out of a government procured trade school shop, it should be Weiler.
But I have seen an occasional VDF. That would be more chunky though.
In company run teaching shops, that may be more broke, I have seen TOS and EMCO.
This school was not broke and is right on the footsteps of Benz, Porsche, Bosch,....
There was another almost identical unit in grey too.
I still bet Weiler.

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So far... the only value I see .. is it keeps you from having spare time to chase fat cars, flat women, expensive beer, younger whiskey, or older horses.

Relying too much on memory...

I may have a few of those adjectives mis-matched?

May have been more cars, and..

I have the same one
I remember having read some documentation about it
The ones for a Condor and Matador are the same except the one for the Condor is a bit longer
But isn`t it that Weilers which can be equped with this had the backside of the bed machined??


Good luck selling it

Peter

Peter from Holland said:

I have the same one
I remember having read some documentation about it
The ones for a Condor and Matador are the same except the one for the Condor is a bit longer
But isn`t it that Weilers which can be equped with this had the backside of the bed machined??

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Hang on. That would not need a whole strip all the way down it.

All it would need is two areas spotfaced.

Those could essentially vanish from notice under a coat of paint, especially in a photograph, unless a person knew what to look for and where.

I found an identicial one on the internet that was mounted on a Weisser Heilbronn Junior. Common machine here.

Martin P said:

I found an identicial one on the internet that was mounted on a Weisser Heilbronn Junior. Common machine here.

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I had never heard the name, had to look that up. But google found plenty when I made the effort!

Even so, based off the research I did before buying the used Mimik, I'd expect it to be the product of the tracer/copier maker, not that of any one given lathe maker.

My research wasn't saved, but besides the US tracer systems makers, ISTR running across at least one UK maker and more than one DE (and/or Swiss?)

Izzat "mystery number TWO" still to be researched, then? EG: WHICH tracer/copier it was used with?