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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by rklopp View Post
    The drawbar assembly might be mostly there, but looks mostly broken. It looks like the draw tube was fractured from the tail part that engages the lever.
    Yep.
    I can't tell how much of the hinge/pivot assembly is there without going again for a closer look.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpseguin View Post
    Good idea! I guess I was stuck in 5C mindset :-)
    Oh, I would not want to be WITHOUT 5C capability!

    Too common, too affordable, one of the few with hex, square, internal expanding, step and pot chucks all in the same "family". Too useful in other-than lathe workholding as well.

    I just left-off drawtubes and seeking of fast cycle-time I don't even need, bought a couple of 5C key-crankers, one on D1-3, the other a plain "plate" mount..

    2J is not my only "other collet system", either!


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  4. #23
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    Default Mori Seiki MS-850 versus Victor 1630 versus Bridgeport Romi versus ...

    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Oh, I would not want to be WITHOUT 5C capability!

    Too common, too affordable, one of the few with hex, square, internal expanding, step and pot chucks all in the same "family". Too useful in other-than lathe workholding as well.

    I just left-off drawtubes and seeking of fast cycle-time I don't even need, bought a couple of 5C key-crankers, one on D1-3, the other a plain "plate" mount..

    2J is not my only "other collet system", either!

    Eventually Iíd like to get a small footprint VMC and a small footprint CNC lathe (Akira Seiki SL30 looks nice), so if I could share collets between the machines...


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    I've ran a few victors at a community college and I do not like them. Only 1 of the 3 I ran did decent work. From my experience I'd stay away from victors. I have been around a few whacheons and mori seiki lathes and they seemed better overall. Hopefully you find a good lathe

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  7. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chknives View Post
    I've ran a few victors at a community college and I do not like them. Only 1 of the 3 I ran did decent work. From my experience I'd stay away from victors. I have been around a few whacheons and mori seiki lathes and they seemed better overall. Hopefully you find a good lathe
    Yeah, I know the Mori Seiki manual lathes, and their CNC machines, have a very good reputation.

    The one Iím looking at is well tooled, has a Heidenhain DRO, 3 jaw, 4 jaw, faceplate, steadyrest, a 5C collet closer, has an A mount spindle. He wants $6500 or $6000 and I could probably negotiate it a bit lower.
    Iíve run the machine and I like it a lot, but thatís a big chunk of change.
    It came out of a shop that was machining graphite, so I donít know what all that graphite would do to the machine, ways, gearbox/spindle short term and long term.
    Anyone?



    That dealer also had a Webb that needs some repairs (switches?) and a nice Victor 1630 that I was able to run.

    He also has a Lodge & Shipley, but I know nothing of them:

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    He also had this ďmonsterĒ...



    :-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpseguin View Post
    Eventually I’d like to get a small footprint VMC and a small footprint CNC lathe (Akira Seiki SL30 looks nice), so if I could share collets between the machines...
    Meahh.. don't get ahead of yerself on that one. Whole 'nuther animal.

    CNC is not just manual with powered and 'puterized XYZ. It's a different environment and mindset.

    "Sharing" collet systems is more a a retiree/hobby thing, and "manual" rather than CNC driven.

    CNC - "small budget" most of all - wants some planning as to spindles as can share toolHOLDERS so changers and magazines don't need as much investment to keep well-equipped.

    Side note: You don't know about Lodge & Shipley? How about Eugen of Savoy?

    What they have in common is basically never losing a battle. Regardless.

    Interesting reads, both. Eugen's 60 years in combat, L&S a tad longer - about 90 years as a company, but... no one ever taught the lathes they made to read the memo that they had been orphaned. They just keep making chips!



    Dunno anyone yet willing to dare a wager when the last of the Large & Shapely Powerturn, Omniturn, and Superturn lathes still "out there" will cease making chips, either.

    Seriously durable goods, and still eminently supportable.

    Parts | Monarch Lathes

    Lodge & Shipley Machine Tool Co. - History | VintageMachinery.org

    In the size range you've been seeking? The smaller of their "Powerturn" tribe:

    Lodge & Shipley "Powerturn" Lathes

    Work that could stall an Asian lathe could be a light snack for an L&S.
    Bring plenty of electricity, though. They had motors according.


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    Quote Originally Posted by BillE View Post
    Suppose you don't use the area, but looks like a big chunk out of the ways under the front cover on the 12 if I'm seeing correctly....might be indicative of abuse - or a dropped chuck?
    I think that might be a smear of oil. To damage the ways from a dropped chuck would mean the way covers would be destroyed, they look OK in that picture

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    Quote Originally Posted by triumph406 View Post
    I think that might be a smear of oil. To damage the ways from a dropped chuck would mean the way covers would be destroyed, they look OK in that picture
    One of the features of the Grazianos, a couple of M5 cap screws are removed from the front covers, which are pretty short, to allow turning of larger diameters, rather than a removable gap - more times than not, often lost - at least in this neck of the woods. Could be right about a smear, but like you, wouldn't touch it anyway without powering it up and a much closer inspection.

    It does seem a bit of the odd man out here when looking at 5 ~ 7.5hp class lathes.

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    Default Mori Seiki MS-850 versus Victor 1630 versus Bridgeport Romi versus ...

    So, I ran the Lodge & Shipley today and it was a blast.




    Itís a model 1408, year is 1965



    The machine is pretty nice, well tooled (3 jaw, 4 jaw, faceplate, steady, follower, taper attachment and tooling, ...), the ways look good, spindle runs with a little bit of gearbox noise and the integration of the VFD was done very well.


    Not that it matters much, but I actually love the color of the machine, and I think itís original paint still. Anybody have any ideas as to the paint name/color/type and where to get a good match that will be durable?

    The issues are mostly minor:
    -some gear noise in the headstock. Could be me being OCD
    -minor: needs new handles for cross slide and tailstock
    -minor: needs a DRO
    -minor, but expensive: the 5C system is wacky. The taper adapter sticks way out and the drawbar looks almost like conduit
    -the Danfoss VFD sometimes gives temporary warnings/faults (WARN. 7 DC link overvolt) when adjusting the speed down when in high speed and it sometimes brings the spindle to an almost stop before starting up to the new speed. Iím guessing this might be some VFD spindle braking ďfeatureĒ that isnít working quite right, so there might be some tuning that could fix this
    -

    I opened the gearbox and the gears look good to my eye:

    Last edited by rpseguin; 07-18-2018 at 01:37 AM.

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  17. #31
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    Default Mori Seiki MS-850 versus Victor 1630 versus Bridgeport Romi versus ...

    I bought the Lodge & Shipley.
    Apparently the paint is original and special as it was in a machine tool show.
    I called Monarch and they were super helpful and gave me lots of details on the lathe after I gave him the serial number, including the fact that it was painted gold and he thinks it was the machine photographed for the cover of the manuals for the Powerturn AVS lathes. He asked me to send a picture of it, as he said heís never seen a gold colored one.

    The machine needs some TLC and elbow grease.

    I donít have a lot of VFD experience and even less with Danfoss variable speed drives, but Iíd like to fix this one problem when itís in high gear.


    Danfoss Variable Speed Drive WARN. 7 - YouTube

    Iím getting WARN. 7 and WARN. 12 warning message on a Danfoss Variable Speed Drive when I have the spindle in high gear and then adjust the speed down. The Danfoss docs Iíve found only briefly talk about WARN. 7 being DC link overvoltage and WARN. 12 torque limit and I havenít found anything on how to fix it.

    You can hear the motor slowing down and ďstallingĒ. Sometimes the motor slows to an almost complete stop before spinning up to the new speed.
    Is this a DC braking phenomenon?
    Iím hoping and thinking that this could be fixed orvtuned out with parameter changes.
    Suggestions?

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  19. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Oh, I would not want to be WITHOUT 5C capability!

    Too common, too affordable, one of the few with hex, square, internal expanding, step and pot chucks all in the same "family". Too useful in other-than lathe workholding as well.

    I just left-off drawtubes and seeking of fast cycle-time I don't even need, bought a couple of 5C key-crankers, one on D1-3, the other a plain "plate" mount..

    2J is not my only "other collet system", either!

    :-)
    I wouldnít be without 5C either. I have my Hardinge HC already. I really need to learn how to set up and use the threading attachment on it though.

  20. #33
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    Quit spinning the chuck with nothing in it, unless you want to eat a jaw sandwich. The inertia of the scroll can make the jaws come out if you accelerate or decelerate hard. Iíve seen it happen, saved disaster at the last second.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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  22. #34
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    The " Lodge & Shipley " looks a nice machine. Gold paint ? That's a new one to me. I like machines in their original paint, just clean it up and promise you won't repaint it. August 1965, I started work as an apprentice a month later. I hope it's in better condition.

    Regards Tyrone.

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  24. #35
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    Default Mori Seiki MS-850 versus Victor 1630 versus Bridgeport Romi versus ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrone Shoelaces View Post
    The " Lodge & Shipley " looks a nice machine. Gold paint ? That's a new one to me. I like machines in their original paint, just clean it up and promise you won't repaint it. August 1965, I started work as an apprentice a month later. I hope it's in better condition.

    Regards Tyrone.

    Thanks!
    I like original paint as well, and this lathe caught my eye right away with the unusual gold/copper coloring. I didn't mention it, but the Monarch tech guy asked me if it was gold and then asked me to send a picture of it since he'd never seen a gold one.
    I'm definitely going to clean it up.
    I removed the screen from the coolant sump last night and there's at least 15+ pounds of small chips in there, along with some really long helical chips (not sure how they go in there :-)
    I like the original color and I'm just stunned it is still there and in such good condition after 53 years!! I may paint some of the small parts that have paint missing, but only if I can find a really good color match of appropriate paint.
    Last edited by rpseguin; 07-21-2018 at 07:00 PM.

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    Hereís the lathe, on the cover of the manuals:


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    Quote Originally Posted by rpseguin View Post
    Here’s the lathe, on the cover of the manuals:

    I'd actually like to try to recreate that picture as close as possible, if I can.
    I need to fix the broken handles on the cross slide and on the tailstock.
    I want to find a 4 way/square/turretish toolpost like the one in the picture.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rklopp View Post
    Quit spinning the chuck with nothing in it, unless you want to eat a jaw sandwich. The inertia of the scroll can make the jaws come out if you accelerate or decelerate hard. I’ve seen it happen, saved disaster at the last second.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    SECONDED!!!! Put at least a length of scrap bar in it - even shiney-wood if you don't have any real metal - and TIGHTEN it down!!!

    A "Large & Shapely" won't give a damn if it is out-of-balance. No real risk, there, but it is kinda fun to take a few passes off it to true it up, especially if you've not had the prior privilege of using a lathe in the "pee-bringer class".



    - 4-WayToolpost: Seek McCroskey, outta Meadville, PA. or thereabouts. They are a sub of some other company nowadays, and back to making other specialized tooling, but "back in the day" were serious-good at 4-Ways, and serious-common on heavy lathes. OTOH, this size is a miniature or "baby" L&S, so even one of the several 4-Way Hardinge trafficed in might fit with minimal riser needed. Post the height dimension here on PM. ISTR one of the five or so 4-Way I have here is too tall for the 10EE's and also too tall for the HBX-360-BC, a roughly 14" X 30" lathe in US-measure.

    - Any VFD-not-DC-Drive will appreciate new capacitors, regardless. A Brand-new VFD would be wiser, though. Good ones have improved. Danfoss I'd rate about "Buick class", rather decent, just not Rolls-Royce. Not a bad unit. Just no longer new. Google and the full model number should find manuals online as downloadable .pdf.

    Most VFD main caps start to go risky anywhere from around 7 to 9 years ex-factory, and the better maker's say so right in the manual. Some degradation goes on even if never powered-up. Even my brand-new Phase-Perfect manual sez to replace its caps at THREE year intervals.

    For new, I'd suggest an industrial-grade Yaskawa. They seem to last longer than most other-present-day ones. You can ask them, but I think Monarch Lathe uses the high-grade Yaskawa's on their present-day lathe workups.

    I say again NEW, not used, not even UNused "NOS" stale-stock shelf-queen with aged components.

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  30. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by rpseguin View Post
    Here’s the lathe, on the cover of the manuals:

    Wow, what else can you say ? That's a thing of beauty. I've seen some really nicely made lathes in my career, some super " DSG's ", " Lang " made nicely finished lathes but that machine in the photo takes some beating. First time I put a job in the chuck I wouldn't have wanted to engage " Forward ". I wouldn't have wanted to mark the paint !

    Regards Tyrone.

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    Default Mori Seiki MS-850 versus Victor 1630 versus Bridgeport Romi versus ...

    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    SECONDED!!!! Put at least a length of scrap bar in it - even shiney-wood if you don't have any real metal - and TIGHTEN it down!!!
    Point taken.

    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    A "Large & Shapely" won't give a damn if it is out-of-balance. No real risk, there, but it is kinda fun to take a few passes off it to true it up, especially if you've not had the prior privilege of using a lathe in the "pee-bringer class".

    Mori Seiki MS-850 versus Victor 1630 versus Bridgeport Romi versus ...

    Iím bringing it home next week. I already snagged the tooling.
    The tailstock weighs 150 pounds, and bizarrely itís only #3 MT. I was expecting #5 MT for how beefy the tailstock and quill are.

    Bonus is that my Toyota Tundra is also gold colored, but a different shade, so it will be a color coordinated transport... :-)

    The lathe weighs in at 3400 pounds stripped down.

    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    - 4-WayToolpost: Seek McCroskey, outta Meadville, PA. or thereabouts. They are a sub of some other company nowadays, and back to making other specialized tooling, but "back in the day" were serious-good at 4-Ways, and serious-common on heavy lathes. OTOH, this size is a miniature or "baby" L&S, so even one of the several 4-Way Hardinge trafficed in might fit with minimal riser needed. Post the height dimension here on PM. ISTR one of the five or so 4-Way I have here is too tall for the 10EE's and also too tall for the HBX-360-BC, a roughly 14" X 30" lathe in US-measure.

    I just found and bought this Royal toolpost, which looks to be a good match (the machine came with a KDK and holders too):



    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    - Any VFD-not-DC-Drive will appreciate new capacitors, regardless. A Brand-new VFD would be wiser, though. Good ones have improved. Danfoss I'd rate about "Buick class", rather decent, just not Rolls-Royce. Not a bad unit. Just no longer new. Google and the full model number should find manuals online as downloadable .pdf.

    Most VFD main caps start to go risky anywhere from around 7 to 9 years ex-factory, and the better maker's say so right in the manual. Some degradation goes on even if never powered-up. Even my brand-new Phase-Perfect manual sez to replace its caps at THREE year intervals.

    For new, I'd suggest an industrial-grade Yaskawa. They seem to last longer than most other-present-day ones. You can ask them, but I think Monarch Lathe uses the high-grade Yaskawa's on their present-day lathe workups.

    I say again NEW, not used, not even UNused "NOS" stale-stock shelf-queen with aged components.
    Ok.
    Thanks for the tips. The cap decay when unused is interesting/weird. I can understand a long half-life, shortened by use.
    The VFD seems to work fine for starting and running and accelerating, which is what makes me think that I need to look at parameter tuning for decel when in high gear.
    The original motor was a 7.5 horsepower DC. The VFD params are set for a 7.5KW motor, so 10 horsepower.
    If I can find a newer/nicer/better 10HP VFD that is affordable, then Iíll get it.


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