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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by rpseguin View Post
    The original motor was a 7.5 horsepower DC. The VFD params are set for a 7.5KW motor, so 10 horsepower.
    Pity you don't have the original DC motor.

    In the era when solid-state was still new, DC had already long been easier to do in variable-speed applications than AC.

    As electronics technology advanced, "power" electronics especially, DC drives became slightly less expensive than VFD. Also greatly more long-lived. No power capacitors at all, so no age or stress failure of what was not THERE to fail.

    Buuuuuut.. decent AC motors went into far lower-cost territory than decent DC motors. At 2018 prices, a 7.5 HP "Type T" DC motor is probably about $14,000, new, if ABB/Rockwell Automation/Baldor-Reliance published MSRP are not too deeply discounted. And they would not be discounted much - if at all - for quantity ONE.

    Moreover, going by the Reliance pubs on a late 1970's 5 HP RPM III Type TR with tachogenerator I have, their motors were already into the $12,000 range forty years ago!

    Meanwhile - from your one's birth, 1965 to probably 1995 - 30 years - VFD were not cheap. Few shop-floor staff understood EITHER type of variable-speed drive. They encountered resistance at the purchase order decision.

    One result was that the all-geared-head fixed-RPM motor siblings, the "ordinary" Powerturn - were more popular than the AVS. They were also very rarely out of service, so did more of the work. Early days, "electrically complicated" AVS were not so lucky - might be down "for a while". Surviving AVS thus tend to have less wear!

    Nowadays, we can find EITHER of affordable DC drives OR VFD replacements much more easily than we can find money to have serious gears made.

    That sets you up for a "win-win" situation on this critter. Even if you have a damaged gear set, you can't have "many" damaged ones.


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  3. #42
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    I'm a bit late, but I've got a couple of pals with the Victor 16x40 who like them a lot, and I've got an MS850G and a friend has a Whacheon with a longer bed and we're happy with our lathes too.

    I'd originally started looking for a SAG12 because a friend has one and has been very happy with it for decades. But I couldn't find one in nice condition (this was 10ish years ago) and several people told me that if I found a nice Mori I'd not regret purchasing it so I aimed a bit higher.

    cheers,
    Michael

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  5. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Moore View Post
    if I found a nice Mori I'd not regret purchasing it so I aimed a bit higher.
    I'd hafta figure the OP aimed even higher-yet to have snagged the same-same factory trade-show Large & Shapely AVS!


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  7. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    I'd hafta figure the OP aimed even higher-yet to have snagged the same-same factory trade-show Large & Shapely AVS!

    I was looking at a specific Mori Seiki MS850. Itís a beautiful lathe, but I got the Large & Shapely for a lot less, due to it needing some cleaning and work and no DRO.
    The PowerTurn does have a TravADial for the carriage. I really like TravADials. Wish it had one for the cross slide.
    Apparently DROs from China are actually decent now, other than the documentation.


    I know where thereís a good condition Mori, a good condition Victor and a Webb if anyone is looking. He also has a really long bed South Bend, a Harrison, a Tos Trenchin, a Famot and a few others.

  8. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Moore View Post
    I'm a bit late, but I've got a couple of pals with the Victor 16x40 who like them a lot, and I've got an MS850G and a friend has a Whacheon with a longer bed and we're happy with our lathes too.

    I'd originally started looking for a SAG12 because a friend has one and has been very happy with it for decades. But I couldn't find one in nice condition (this was 10ish years ago) and several people told me that if I found a nice Mori I'd not regret purchasing it so I aimed a bit higher.

    cheers,
    Michael
    I really like Moris and I like the Victor, but I got a good deal on the Lodge & Shipley.

  9. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Pity you don't have the original DC motor.

    In the era when solid-state was still new, DC had already long been easier to do in variable-speed applications than AC.

    As electronics technology advanced, "power" electronics especially, DC drives became slightly less expensive than VFD. Also greatly more long-lived. No power capacitors at all, so no age or stress failure of what was not THERE to fail.

    Buuuuuut.. decent AC motors went into far lower-cost territory than decent DC motors. At 2018 prices, a 7.5 HP "Type T" DC motor is probably about $14,000, new, if ABB/Rockwell Automation/Baldor-Reliance published MSRP are not too deeply discounted. And they would not be discounted much - if at all - for quantity ONE.

    Moreover, going by the Reliance pubs on a late 1970's 5 HP RPM III Type TR with tachogenerator I have, their motors were already into the $12,000 range forty years ago!

    Meanwhile - from your one's birth, 1965 to probably 1995 - 30 years - VFD were not cheap. Few shop-floor staff understood EITHER type of variable-speed drive. They encountered resistance at the purchase order decision.

    One result was that the all-geared-head fixed-RPM motor siblings, the "ordinary" Powerturn - were more popular than the AVS. They were also very rarely out of service, so did more of the work. Early days, "electrically complicated" AVS were not so lucky - might be down "for a while". Surviving AVS thus tend to have less wear!

    Nowadays, we can find EITHER of affordable DC drives OR VFD replacements much more easily than we can find money to have serious gears made.

    That sets you up for a "win-win" situation on this critter. Even if you have a damaged gear set, you can't have "many" damaged ones.

    Whoa! It is a pity indeed. I've actually asked the machinery dealer to ask the previous owner if they have any other stuff that they found from the lathe. I doubt they somehow missed a 7.5HP DC motor, but you never know...

    Those are some pricey motors!!

    The Monarch tech guy actually told me that my Lodge & Shipley Powerturn 1408 AVS was probably well over $16000.00, and those were 1965 dollars...

  10. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by rpseguin View Post
    The Monarch tech guy actually told me that my Lodge & Shipley Powerturn 1408 AVS was probably well over $16000.00, and those were 1965 dollars...
    That would buy a decent 3 BR suburban home with garage back then. My first one was $20,400 but was six years later - 1971. Somebody had given a war in the meantime, so I just over 2 years back in the civilian job market.

    As-of 1965, that L&S wudda been about about 19 months gross pay, Machinist First-Class, USWA Union scale, but marginal job-shop, smalltown WBGVA, our just-renewed end-1964 2 yr contract.

    IOW - no NEW L&S or anything else for we Chikn's.

    What I was actually assigned, other than the "many" Dinosaur-era Niles were one of two L&S Model "A" and the lone coveted Model "X" L&S. OTOH, the weren't "mini" 1408-sizes. The only 20-22" was a pre-tray-top Cinncy, 8-foot bed. All else were 30" to 50" 10 and 12 foot beds. Nature of the work we did needed the swing, mostly, a six or eight foot shaft worked maybe a few times a week. Our really BIG machines might do but one or two jobs a YEAR, but were 1890's-1920's new-build dates. Didn't have those, couldn't win a "packaged" bid.

    Has it really changed so much?

    What's a decent CNC machining center cost, brand-new, in terms of an annual wage or the price of an average suburban home?

    Warn yah before you do the math that average home prices, nationwide, may have kept up to a fair match, but average Machinist wages have not!


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  12. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    I left Galis for Army, "RA", 1965. $47.88/month. Came out 1968 as 1LT "O2 over 3" pay grade of around $1,000/month with rations and quarters allowance.

    First house I owned wasn't until 1971. 3 BR, eat-in kitchen separate DR, LR, full basement with 1 car garage/walk-out, but only 1 bath 'til I added another. $20,400. IIRC.
    I was on about $13,300/yr at the time as a Jr exec of an Esterline Medical compmany, and driving a new nobody-ever-heard-of-those BMW "Bavaria" 4DR 3.0L 6 cyl.

    That L&S wudda been about a year and a half's gross pay, 2 or a bit, Joe Average worker-bee.

    Has it really changed so much? What's a decent CNC machining center cost, brand-new, in terms of an annual wage or the price of an average suburban home?

    I live in the Bay Area and can't afford to even consider buying a house here. I love the area and love the weather, but I feel trapped; I won't leave, as my kids are here and I won't ever bail on them, but it is pretty frustrating paying almost 40% of my NET income to my ex and then still having to pay insane rent and pay for all of my other expenses. My ex intentionally did some pretty nefarious shit that screwed me in the divorce and forced me into bankruptcy and gave her all the goods. She owns a house and after my support, earns something like $4000/month NET more than I do.

    The Zillow affordability calculator says I can afford a house that costs $257000. Guess how many houses here cost that much, or even twice that much? _ZERO_

    I'm spending some of my retirement savings (I expect to work until at least 2-3 days after I die anyways :-) ) to invest in my kids education and future to help teach them.

  13. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by rpseguin View Post
    I live in the Bay Area and can't afford to even consider buying a house here. I love the area and love the weather, but I feel trapped; I won't leave, as my kids are here and I won't ever bail on them,
    I know the area. And the costs.

    The kids might be far better-off and "real soon, now" if you went where YOU could be "better off", had more flexibility, economically, and lower stress on your own health. They build their own networks right youngish, then go their own ways soon as they can do. Not just Americans, either. Current generation are "globalizing" themselves, don't even stay on one Continent for University or choice of mates. Well... neither did I, and I'm.. "no longer young", but it was still the exception, not the rule, even by the time I retired the "first time" 1994.

    My krew of kin and protege - not all even genetic relations by marriage (zero of my own), the two least-active of the lot did University & Grad School on two continents, the two most active, FOUR. That's a 22 y/o to about 40 y/o tribe.

    Those still in HS? Hard to tell. The young are resilient. We were. Had to be. But the world seems to be regressing some days, too many ways.

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  15. #50
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    The kids might be ok Bill but the OP might not. When I got divorced access to my kids was used as a weapon by my ex wife. Not seeing them regularly nearly cracked me up.

    Regards Tyrone.

  16. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrone Shoelaces View Post
    The kids might be ok Bill but the OP might not. When I got divorced access to my kids was used as a weapon by my ex wife. Not seeing them regularly nearly cracked me up.
    That's awful!
    I know exactly what you are talking about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrone Shoelaces View Post
    The kids might be ok Bill but the OP might not. When I got divorced access to my kids was used as a weapon by my ex wife. Not seeing them regularly nearly cracked me up.

    Regards Tyrone.
    Ages matter. Greatly. Only one of three was still young enough to not have finished HS in my case. I had managed to put up with.. "stuff".. for four years to defer a divorce with that very goal.

    Getting some "space" let me focus better on work so as to repair the horrible fiscal damage. With that paying-off, I was soon again able afford the rental of a PA-28 to fly up to a University, take the eldest and her best bud on a starry-starry-night flight, have a nice dinner and chat, etc. Youngest was driving, came to visits with me and GF on her own initiative.

    As said "ages".

    They become "adults" with their own ways awfully fast, and too often, were well-along at a time (early teens) when we were not paying much attention, even in good marriages.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpseguin
    Apparently DROs from China are actually decent now, other than the documentation.
    Probably verboten here, but have found easson and sinos ok for anything other than heavy use. Sino scale plastic protective ends break looking at them, but still function after several years - touch wood. Also have sony versions, missing that same part, that occasionally go nuts.

    Picture back over the page with the bits in the foreground, the two lumps with gold paint somehow associated with a TA?

    Funny looking back, parents were able to afford to buy near you in Burlingame in the mid 50s, on basically a midwife's and a shitkicker's wage, and own the place outright a few years later...looking at some current listings, it still looks a touch cheaper than the ponzi housing prices we endure locally!

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  20. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillE View Post
    Probably verboten here, but have found easson and sinos ok for anything other than heavy use. Sino scale plastic protective ends break looking at them, but still function after several years - touch wood. Also have sony versions, missing that same part, that occasionally go nuts.

    Thanks!

    Quote Originally Posted by BillE View Post
    Picture back over the page with the bits in the foreground, the two lumps with gold paint somehow associated with a TA?
    Yep. It has a taper attachment.
    Not a great picture, but you can see it.



    Quote Originally Posted by BillE View Post
    Funny looking back, parents were able to afford to buy near you in Burlingame in the mid 50s, on basically a midwife's and a shitkicker's wage, and own the place outright a few years later...looking at some current listings, it still looks a touch cheaper than the ponzi housing prices we endure locally!
    I like Burlingame! I wish I could afford anywhere here.
    Iíve had persistent daydreams of buying a big diesel schoolbus and gutting it and makkng it livable, but I donít want to do that to my kids and also the cities are not very accepting or friendly to people trying to live and park their homes.
    Whatís bad is that the cities and counties helped (thereís plenty of blame for lots of different parties) create this housing problem, but also donít want to deal with the consequences.
    I was listening to some discussions about how theyíre going to pass a bill to spend $500 million on affordable housing. Well, that sounds like a big number in abstraction, the reality here is thatís a drop in the bucket.

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  22. #55
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    I've started a new thread to document the lathe and cleanup and to find docs, ask questions, get help, find tooling, ...

    1965 Lodge & Shipley Powerturn 1408 AVS


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