My Caz 360 Project

My Caz 360 got delivered a few days ago so I thought I might share some pictures if anyone is interested. Goes without saying that this machine is extremely dirty and covered with years of dried on oil, dirt and other various grime, it's going to take me a long time to clean it up.

Caz 360 - 1 pictures by pastypies - Photobucket

As with so many of these machines the bottom hydraulic actuator is leaking all over the place and possibly also the top one as well. Also looks like I'm going to need to take the apron and lead screw off as there is considerable play in the longitudinal dial to the left of the main longitudinal hand wheel, I'm hoping it's just in need of a new bearing and not something more sinister.

As you can see my machine has come factory fitted with a hydraulic copy unit, I think it is all there and in working order but until I can get the machine up and running I won't know for sure.

I'm stuck on single phase in my workshop so I will be running this machine via a 7.5Kw VFD. Assuming I can fix the leaking hydraulics I intend to integrate the existing switching and brake to the VFD, watch this space.

Has anyone actually removed the apron and lead screw assembly and if so where do you start?

Might also need some help on removing the hydraulic actuators top and bottom, in fact I can't even tell how to remove the bottom unit as there are no visible bolts or screws, any help or advice would be most welcome.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e387/pastypies/Caz%20360%20-%201/DSC00392.jpg

I understand I will need to purchase a slide hammer to remove the actuators so I will get one in the week.

I had a Harrison 155 before this machine which was the metric version of the L6, not a bad machine but the Caz is far more complex, assuming I can fix the glitches with it however it's going to be a lot more productive than my old machine.

Steve...

lots of info you'll find in the thread of my HBX below.
condition looks pretty normal to me. needs a decent cleaning.
Bertus

Steve!

Congrats! Your lathe seems to be in decent shape exept from the common oil leaks, and very complete and well equipped! It isn't more dirty than the others I have seen. It looks to be late 70ies, as you probably can read from the sign.

All oil seals can be had from the factory, at least last time I looked. It pays to replace them all while you're at it, including the ones on the leadscrew tubes. As Bertus pointed out there are instructions on this forum. First hint is to be very careful while removing the oil collection reservoirs over the variator sheave hubs, especially the upper one. DO not use a gear puller pushing against the end of the 6mm slotted center thread, it will break or bend. Read instruction for removing using slide hammer. Apron is removed after pulling the leadscrew to the right, take care to remove the woodruff key in the left end of screw first as indicated in the manual.

Lower variator end reservoir with valve slider pulls right out after you have removed the linkage. Play in endstop and scale rotor is no big deal, it works well anyway. Good luck, don't hesitate to ask if stuck!

Ole

Ole,

Many thanks for the advice, I am in need of it as these machines are very new to me coming from a Harrison lathe background. My machine isn't even running yet but I know I have made a good choice in buying a Caz.

As you recommend I will be buying a slide hammer. If I get the opportunity I will take lots of pictures when I change the seals on the variators and also on the lead screw covers. I will no doubt be getting back to you when I screw up somewhere along the way if that's OK.

My machine was made in 1978 or so they claimed at the auction. I have since given the machine a bit of a clean before it leaves my drive and enters into my workshop Caz 360 - 1 pictures by pastypies - Photobucket.

It's surprising how quick this machine cleaned up with the aid of a bit if water soluble degreaser and a pressure washer, 95% of the dirt is gone within the space of an hour even though I had an oil slick flowing down my drive, wife not impressed

I cleaned up my old lathe with turpentine and a paintbrush and it took me about six weeks on and off, you learn the hard way I guess!

Steve...

Steve!

I guess the video was supposed to illustrate the backlash between feed handwheel and endstop/ indicator drum. It does not look excessive at all, I would say it looks average ( I have only seen three of these machines close up including my own).

Notice that both leadscrew and crossfeed screw are supposed to run in oil baths. The crossfeed screw oilbath doubles as a reservoir for the manual guideway lubrication pump. More often than not both these oilbaths are empty due to neglect and leaky seals.

The delivery date of the lathe can probably be read from the plate from the British importer Rudolph Carne & Co affixed to the left front.

Regarding VFD: If you use the VFD for speed control the oil pump will need to be connected to a constant RPM motor of some kind, otherwise you will loose oil pressure when you reduce speed, resulting in belt slippage and loss of headstock lubrication. If you replace variator with constant ratio belt you will still need oil pump for lubrication. I would advice to use VFD as constant speed 3- phase source, and use variator as designed. The work and cost involved in replacing the seals is far less than modifying the whole drive system. The lathe stays original, retaining resale value.

Ole

Ole,

That's reassuring to learn about the backlash on the hand wheel, I guess if they all seem to be the same then I have nothing to worry about. The saddle and apron are going to be coming off anyway so I can change the lead screw seals and give it all a good service. My machine did have oil in the apron and cross slide but it was like tar so I can't tell if it will leak with the correct grade of oil so I'm changing them regardless.

I'm only on a single phase supply therefore the only way I can run a 10HP motor is via a VFD. I did see the other posts where the drive belts and pulleys where replaced and a separate pump installed to keep the bearings oiled but if I can fix the oil leaks on my machine I'm going to keep it original.

I was planning to incorporate the original switching on/off, forward/reverse, foot brake etc. with the VFD that way I get the same functionality as the original but with soft start etc. I did this with my old Harrion 155 and it worked a treat.

Steve...

Can anyone tell me what this bit does? Looks like some kind off stop for something.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e387/pastypies/Caz%20360%20-%201/DSC00419.jpg

Steve...

I'm not totally sure, but I think it's the stop that can be mounted on the front guideway to stop the saddle applied for thread cutting. it looks a bit different as mine. Mine must be bolted down. anyone a better guess?

Bertus

Pastypies said:

[...]

I was planning to incorporate the original switching on/off, forward/reverse, foot brake etc. with the VFD that way I get the same functionality as the original but with soft start etc. I did this with my old Harrion 155 and it worked a treat.

Steve...

Click to expand...

If you reverse the VFD, won't that reverse the oil pump as well? I'm not familiar with your machine, but it seemed worth mentioning.

Jim

The thing in the picture is a right- hand stop. The wedge-formed arm swings down and engages the rack from underneath, while the micrometer screw rests on top . Very rare piece! The block- formet stop is for the left hand side. Both are visible here:


In the original configuration the lathe is reversed by reversing the motor, the oil pump is designed to deliver pressure in both directions via a four-valve system:

Reversing, soft start and brake via VFD is probably a very good idea.

Ole

Ole,

Thanks for that, I figured it was some kind of stop but didn't know where it went. I am in the process of replacing the seals on the bottom variator. I'm taking lots of pictures of how I'm doing and will post the links to some links to the pics later.

Maybe people can use it as a guide on how to replace the seals if they haven't already done so although seeing as it's me doing it it's more likely to be a guide on how not to do it.

Steve...

Hi all,

I'm in the process of replacing the top and bottom variator seals on my Caz. So far I have removed the seals and am waiting for replacements to arrive.

I have made a photo diary of my progress thus far if anyone is interested. Just thought it might be helpful should anyone be thinking about doing it to.

The links are here:

Caz 360 Bottom Variator Seal Replacement pictures by pastypies - Photobucket

Caz 360 Top Variator Seal Replacement pictures by pastypies - Photobucket

For some reason the pictures appear in reverse order so you need to go to the last one to be at the start if that makes sense.

When I get the new seals I will document the reassembly.

Steve...

I was wondering if anyone had changed the seals on the telescopic tubes which cover the lead screw.

I have managed to get the tubes off but I am uncertain as to how the sections come apart. I was reluctant to try and simply pull them apart in case it will damage them.

Any advice most welcome..

Steve...

Steve!

Very instructive pics, and impressive homemade puller. How did you pull the upper box? Did it come right off?

The tube seals are glued on. To separate the tubes from each other you have to carefully break the seals off from each tube, and then the seals have to be replaced. The tubes have a bronze bush in the "inner" end, but that shold be left in place, I think they are glued in as well. The factory probably supplies a glue, but I forgot to order. I used cynoacrylate with vanillin acellerator, as (green) loctite does not work well on stainless. Use thick cyano, don't spill any down the tube, or you might glue the tubes to each other!

Ole

Hi Pastypies,

very nice pictures indeed. watching the pictures of the lower variator I saw the plastic ring in the lower box. I lack this ring and can not be ordered anymore. Do you have the possibility to measure up this ring, in case your lower box is still open.
I would appriciate such.

Ole,
the top box comes off pretty easily. operating with common sence does the trick.
the conical seat makes it a little difficult. slightly heating the aluminium box helps.

Bertus

Ole,

Many thanks for the advice on the leadscrew seals I will give that a go next week and see how i get on. Btw the top box came off after a few blows of that slide hammer by hooking the washer on the back face. Bit of a lash up but it worked. I've been taking lots of pics of the saddle, apron, leadscrew refit so when I'm done I will post them up.

Bertus,

When I get home on Sunday I will measure the part you were asking about and post the details, should be an easy part to make up I should think.

Steve.

looking forward to get the dimensions of the ring, Steve.

also the pictures of the apron, leadscrew will be apriciated as it will be the next step of
cleaning my Caz. the oil level in the apron is very low and it's condition doesn't predict any good.

Bertus

Bertus,

Here are the dimensions you requested:

Outside diameter = 40mm
Inside diameter = 38.5mm
Diameter of lip on bottom = 48mm
Overall height = 17.65mm

Not sure if this part is glued on or is a press fit, I was reluctant to find out just in case it was glued.

Hope this can be of some help.

Steve...

If anyone is interested I have started adding some pictures with a brief description of the cross slide and apron overhaul I am doing on my machine.

It should be noted I am no expert on doing machine tool refits and some of the stuff could possibly be done in a different order.

There's going to be more pictures to come in the next couple of weeks assuming I get the time. I have managed to get all the pictures now in the right order so pic number one is at the start and not the end.

Caz 360 Crossslide and Apron Removal pictures by pastypies - Photobucket

Steve...

Hi Pasty,
I watched your pictures of removing the apron and cross slide.
They will be most helpfull to support my removing and cleaning of the apron and slide.

I've put some pictures in the other thread about the Caz 360, but a better organization of my Photobucket folders is required.

Also in my case the lack of time is slowing down the overhaul process vastly.

Bertus