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  1. #341
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    Hi Bertus

    I thin if you measure the DC resistance at the motor, you should be able to finde differences at the windings of the motor, in case they have a schort in the winding. I do not think that you have a short to the housing, because then the ELCB would switch off as well. In case there is a problem - for sure it can be rewound - I brought much smaller motors for rewinding, and it payed off.. My brother does that himselve, he allways tells me, it is not difficult, but whatever you knoww how, seems to be easy. (if you need resistancevalues to compare, let me know - my motor does not have the oilpump flanged on, but I think the motor is the same)

    Good luck and regards
    Anton

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    Hello Anton,

    tonight I'll finish an urgent job, so tomorrow I look a the motor. I hope I find some different readings between the windings. with the HBX in the new location I can lift out the motor with a hoist.
    there are a few capable companies who can rewind motors like this.

    You say, your oil pump is not flanged against the motor. how is your oil pump powered? separate motor?

    Thanks, Bertus

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    Hello Bertus

    Hope you can do it with the motor.
    My Hydraulic is at the back of the lathe.
    hydraulik.jpg
    Please let me know about your motor.

    Regards Anton

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    Hi Anton,

    this means you have a rather new one?
    regarding my HBX; I've talked to a electrical engineer and he will come Tuesday next week, to investigate the motor.
    I must admit that my knowledge and equipment in terms of electricity aren't the greatest
    for sure I'll post the results and the solution.

    have a nice weekend!!
    Bertus

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    Hi Anton,

    well, the engineer showed up yesterday and looked at the motor. He took out the thermall protection and measured the presence of the 24 V and the three phases.... all seemed to be allright.
    so after reconnecting the thermall relay, we fired up the motor,..... and ran forward and backward like a charm.

    conclusoin is that the motor and electrics currently are in good shape, but we have no idee about the cause.
    later on I post a picture of the thermal block

    Br. Bertus

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    Hi Anton,

    yesterday I rearranged my machines in the shop and the HBX back where I wanted it, hooked up the the power and blew a fuse just as before. Than I plugged into the connector we used Tuesday, when checking the circuitery of the Caz. Now she ran just fine. I guess the Caz is fine, but a bad connection in my power supply. That must be easy to fix.

    Bertus

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    Hi Bertus

    Good it is not the motor, anything else will be easier and cheaper. I do not know exactly what happens when you miss one phase, but I can imagine that the motor will not start turning, so the currant will be high and blow the fuse.
    Yes my machine is not very old, I am not suire, but I think they told me that it was built 85 - but my memor is not a good one, so it could be wrong. Anyway it did not look too bad when I baught it, but when we took it apart, we were not enjoying what we saw - but finaly with some seals, bearings and paint and and and ....... (as you know very well by yourselve) --- it started working nicely and also looks atracting (at least to me, because I love metall working machines - when I saw the HBX 360 BC the first time in the internet and got all the specifications, I was not able to sleep properly for three nights)

    Hope you find you problem soon and easy
    regards
    Anton

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    Hi Anton,

    I found out what was wrong in the circuitery.
    first I ran throuhg the power lines and the junction boxes, where I found a bad connection. This was a push-in connector and I replaced it by an screw-type.
    time to power on the Caz. Much to my frustration once again a fuse blew.
    the next action was to replace all the push-in connectors an I replaced the the 16 Amp fuses by 20 Amp.
    this did the trick.
    I used the lathe the last two days for small jobs the get more familiar to operate the lathe.
    the tailstock is acharm to work with, but the room around the cross slide hand wheel is a little bit tight. You touch often the auto-feed lever and the knob for roughning/finishing. I guess I get used to that.
    the small jobs I've are things to improve or repair the multifix tools, the cover over the drive train, face plate and more stuff likr that.
    So, after several years of overhauling I got my HBX running.
    I want to thank everyone who helped finding solutions for the challenges I faced.

    But I'll stay around and try to help anybody with HBX issues.


    regards Bertus

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    Hi Bertus

    Great you found the problem.

    When you work with the HBX, be sure to fix the saddle rest to the bed of the Machine when using the automatic cross feed. It happened to me, that I did not, while making a bigger steel part, when the automatic feed stopped too early and we tried to switch it on again, it went into a fast longitudinal feed. The plastic gear in the head stock broke, and it was a lot of work to change that (did the spindle bearings too, because it was the same work) - but since then I can hear a slightly different noise from the head stock (sounds like a ticking). So be carefull, not to make the same mistake as I did.
    If you hear someting about parts - I am looking for a faceplate (or two different ones) and the two steady rests.

    If you have time, let me have a photo from your HBX

    Have a nice time with the lathe and regards
    Anton

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    Hi Anton,

    I'm sorry to hear you had a crash with your Caz. I know also by expierience how much work it is to pull the main spindle. In my Caz the seal behind the chuck was leaking, forcing my to take out the spindle. For the same reason as you did, l replaced the main bearings. The plastic gear ring looked brand new, and everything else inside the spindle stock looked just fine. This gave my also the possibility to clean the internals of the spindle stock casing.
    what di you mean with " saddle rest" ? You mean the lever to lock the saddle?
    The only way to get fast longitudal movment is by engaging the threadscrew lever??
    Last Saturday once again my fuses popped. By checking the blown fuses more closely, it turned out that I had m
    installed de 20 Amp fast ones instead slow ones. I made an attempt to adjust the spindle break, but I can't get it quiet right.
    the lower front shave won't get to the command cover and in the upper shaves the belt stays to low. I guess the hydralic pressure in the upper shave is to low or not present, resulting in to less force to push the upper shaves together. I also noted the absence of return oil flow from the upper cover. This can be by the fact that the upper cover is pushed too far on its seat, so the pressure feed bore is no longer in line with the groove in cover. This results in a belt which is not proper tensioned a gives a rumbling noise at high rpm.

    I also lack aface plate currently, but I won a Camlock D5 flange at Ebay in Austria and a 350 mm large face plate at "Marktplaats" in the Netherlands. I want to modify the plate to the Camlock flange.
    my HBX also came without rests. Once again I found a nice steady rest at " Marktplaats". The live rest I found in France, on a site called " leboncoin". Just enter Cazeneuve; tout category; tout le France, and you'll find Caz machines and parts.
    or look for a company called RDMO, they offered my a steady for € 500, ex VAT, ex shipping.
    But when I see some of the lacking parts I'll let you know by PM.

    best regards,

    Bertus

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    Hi Bertus

    Thank you for your sympathie. Seems we have both some experience with the main spindle.
    - Yes I mean that lever, or I more commonly use the bedstop, which came with my lathe.
    - No it is not the only way, if the automatic cross feed is accidentaly stopped by too much force in that direction or by the micrometerscrew you watch through the magnifieing glass, and you try to push the cross feed in again, it will start a very fast longitudinal movement to the left. (at least my machine - it is possible that we did something wrong, when puting it together again, but I believe not, because after the accident I understood the warnings on my machine which tells something like always use that lever when using the cross feed)
    20140609_123645.jpg
    - Fuse - Yes for sure the fast type will blow when you switch on and the phase with the fast fuse is close to its maximum.
    Sorry about the problems with your spindle braak, but mine looks different, it is more like a brake from a car, and it was easy to be adjusted, and works since then.
    Ah you are one of the lucky guys with a camlock spindle, I am not, i got the strange Cazeneuve flange. I asked Cazeneuve in France for an offer for one ot those spindles - look at the attached offer. (thought that camlockspindle is made of an alloy of platinum and gold)

    Ref. Bezeichnung Menge Einzelpreis Gesamtpreis
    1.373.647.00 CamLock Spindel 1 4200 € 4200 €
    1.122.314.00 Nocken für CamLock Nase 6 128 € 768 €
    3.133.182.90 Spezielle CHC Schraube 6 12 € 72 €
    3.400.172.91 Feder 6 9 € 54 €
    1.360.602.00 Vorderabweiser 1 54 € 54 €
    3.610.490.00 Hinterdichtung 1 16 € 16 €
    3.443.516.01 Vorderspindellager (1) 1 438 € 438 €
    3.441.455.00 Hinterspindellager (1) 1 319 € 319 €
    1.364.595.01 Zahnrad (2) 1 106 € 106 €
    Gesamtpreis ab Werk Pont-Eveque 6 027 €

    That is why I had to stay with the Cazeneuve flange.

    Thank you, about the steady rest from RDMO, but I do not like to spend that much, but if you find something for me, please let me know.

    Right now I am adding a DRO to my lathe. I bought an expensive one from Newall - hope its worth it.

    Thank you for your hints - sorry that I cannot help ypu with the break.

    Regrads from Vienna
    Anton

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    Hello Anton,

    Yes, with a Camlock nose life is easier. Looking at the offer to convert your Caz into a Camlock one, the prices are reasonable, but not affordablr for poor private guys like us. The quotations I got from the Dutch importer are twice as high compared to you roffer. Mainspindle bearing would have costed me € 1500. So I've worked out some alternatives for several parts.

    I just have been looking on the site of Ladner and found Cazeneuve flanges.
    look for flasques and download this folder. They produce and resell a lot of Caz parts and their price/qality is ok.
    in the company I work for we use a few.
    maybe you can try Amestra as well.

    IMO it is still strange that as the cross slide is kicked out and you re-engage the cross slide you get a rapid longitudional movement. The sliding bush inside the apron, which operated by the selector lever for cross slide or the slide moving returns to
    Its middle position after it kicked out. It puzzles me a bit how your situation can occur.

    the blown rapid fuses weren't a great surprise, but a that time it was the only 20 Amp fuses available in that shop. So I took them ans ordered slow ones.

    this week further with little issues, like the brake and the tooling. Furthermore I want to make the little chip cover on the slide, which runs underneath the chip cover which is attached to the spindle casing.

    I found my rest after a long search with help from a few guys, who friendly helped me.
    the steady rest cost me € 350 and the following € 200 and yes, a DRO is on my to do list. A Newal DRO is nice, and I expect good quality, but at a stiff price. But once in a time you have to treat yourself.
    i have been looking for a Jenix set, but haven't decided yet. Does the Newal have very compact rules?

    Well, I'm looking forward to hear from progress on the DRO.

    best regards,

    Bertus

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    Hello Bertus

    About the longitudinal movement, I am not sure, mae be we put something wrong together. But when I saw the label, I thought that it might be normal. I will try to take a vide (when my daughter has time to tape it) and let you know the link.
    Thank you for the hints - I already sent a mail to Ladner.
    About the fuses, I checked those in my machine - they are 25A and the good thing about - i noticed one of them got burned holes in the contactnose, and all the sand went to the contactor. So I screwed it stronger, and removed all the sand - hopefully the contactors will not go bad.

    So your brake works now - great. That with teh chip cover, I did not understand, where you like to place it. Mae be you can atach a foto, when you are done with it.

    The DRO finaly is done. I atach some fotos so you can see the size. For the x direction I used a big one, and for y a small one. the dimensions of the small one can be seen here:
    http://www.newall.co.uk/upload/conte...d_draw_mhg.pdf
    p1070849.jpgp1070846.jpgp1070852.jpg

    Please keep me updated on your progress.
    Have a good time
    thank you for the hints
    best regards
    Anton

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    Hi Anton,

    i've been thinking about locking the longtudinal movement. probably Caz put the lable to asure that the movement of the cross slide is square to the Z-axis. With the slide unlocked unlocked you could get a longitudinal movement, giving a curved surface. I don't think you've made a mistake in reassembling he apron. that case you likely would have some malfunctions.

    I'm sorry that I wasn't clear about the brake. it is still not working, but that will come.
    the missing chip cover is attached on the left beam of the slide. try to insert a picture.
    this is the first picture. it's the part that runs underneath the chip guard bolted to the head stock.

    your Newall DRO looks superb. very nice technique. and nicely mounted to the slides.
    the two other pictures are showing the parts of the progress on the face plate

    best regards,

    Bertus
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 2014-04-12-16.01.44.jpg   img_0365.jpg   img_0366.jpg  

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    Hi Bertus,

    Sorry, was busy - but made a video about the change of the feed direction.

    It is upside down, but I think it shows.
    Can you try at your machine, if it does the same? Otherwise I think we did something wrong.
    How is your break? You were clear about, but my English is not so .....
    The Newall DRO was my Christmasgift 2012.
    A nice idea to prepare an older faceplate with camlock as you do - and the faceplate you use looks like heavy duty - will do a nice job when you have to use it.
    I did not yet get an answer from france about the adapter.

    Regards and hope you can view the video.
    Anton

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    Hi Anton,

    I've seen your video and noticed the movement of the Z-axis. strange....
    this evening I'll be in my shop and wil do the same you did and let you know the outcome.

    by the way, you have a nice looking lathe.
    last week I discoverd that cutting tool was moving up and down, caused by wear of the multifix toolpost.
    after a few calls I found a Original Multifix toolpost. I've to make a new bolt to tight down the toolpost.
    there seems nothing standard in this world.

    regards, Bertus

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    Default testing cross slide movement

    Hello Anton,

    I've done the same thing as you. In my case, with the micrometer blocked, re-engaging the cross slide feed resulted in a ratching feel in the lever.
    Longutidinal movement didn't occur. So, I'm afraid there's something wrong in your Apron,
    furthermore I've tested the threadcutting cycle. this is working like a charm. I'm thrilled about that.

    the brake has to wait an other day.
    here's a pic of my new toolpost.
    multifix-toolpost-140627-new.jpg
    Last edited by ducbertus; 06-27-2014 at 06:01 PM. Reason: picture in wrong position

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    Hello Bertus

    Thank you for testing - have to find out, what's wrong with my apron. (anyway I still have my Seeger ring, which was left after the machine was complete - may be that has to do something with it - I think I had asked about it earlier in that thread)
    What is the threadcutting cycle? I think I'd never used that. I just use the machine for thread cutting like an Anjest - but the nice thing - works for imperial and metric. Had a Colchester before with an Anjest - loved it too.

    Thank you - yours look very nice too. I am envious about your new toolholder. Mine is very old and I am not able to remove it. I tried with a nut and a tube as extention, but it did not move at all. I got afraid and I left it as it was, but I still would like to unscrew it, and have a look underneath. (I think there are some standards, but if you look at some french cars esp. older ones - it seems there are none, may be it is similar with lathes)

    I have two questions about the saddle rest - hope that is the right word - that looks different at mine, and I think that mine is not original Cazeneuve, and one about the Multifix. Please look at the photos.

    01.jpg2.jpg

    Your Jaw Juck looks very nice - what kind is it?

    Thank you and regards
    Anton

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    Hi Anton,

    I know you still have that seegerring, coming somewhere out of the apron. I think you're problem is in the ratchet that connects the cross slide or the slide to the leadscrew. see also picture.
    threading with the HBX is the standard threadcutting procedure, but this is soo much better than I used to do on my former AI lathe.
    The forward motion stopped by the stop on the bed and easy reengaging is very convinient.

    The toolpost that came with the HBX is probably the Original Ladner, supplied when the lathe was bought by the first owner. I noticed already that there was little resistance when turning the lever to tighten the clamping system.
    It turned out that the excentric shaft and the counterbores are worn beyond use. I doubted about the new toolpost. Chinese ones are offered for about € 150. But in my opinion the toolpost is an important part. Therefore I choose for an Original Multifix at the cost of € 320. (I faired it would be much more expensive). As you can see, it is very nice one with polished surfaces, which are easy to clean.
    normally a Multifix toolpost is bolted down and maybe 2 spring bushes, to withstand high load during heavy machining. I'll post some pics later on this week. comparison between the old Ladner toolpost and the Multifix shows that every dimension, pdc and sizes of bores and holes are different.

    the part that you lack near the topslide is the clamping system for locking the topslide. this avoid curved surfaces when using the cross slide under heavy cutting loads. I didn't look for angle nonius on the cross slide, but I think it's there.

    My standard chuch is a 200 mm SCA scroll chuck with serated ground jaws and hardened top jaws. each jaw is tightened by 3 bolts M8. you can place the jaws anywhere on the ground jaws. the benefit is that you don't to turn the ground jaws out very far for clamping larger parts. So, you don't get much chips or debris in the body of the chuck. the top jaws are brand new. (will post pics later on this week) the outside of the chuch is rather battered and clearly need some attention.

    detail of the inside of the apron where I suspect the seegerring should belong somewhere.
    120616-spring-ring-lock-pin-selector-pull-shaft.jpg 111121_small-inside-apron.jpg

    the second pic is the inside of the apron before cleaning, btw.

    regards, Bertus

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    Default removing tool post

    Hello Anton,

    I realised that I didn't answer your question in the second photo. looking at the nut, it doesn't seemed to be damaged. the one thing that pop's in to my mind is that the former owner/mechanic used Locktite stud lock or something equal to that.
    my suggestion is to use a correct socket and a piece of pipe to get the required amout of leverage. I post some pictures to answer your questions about the tool post, slide scale, and compound slide lock.

    140702-compound-slide-scale.jpg140702-compoundslide-locking-devixe.jpg140702-multifix-toolpost-nut.jpg140702-multifix-toolpost.jpg140702-old-toolpost-dowels.jpg

    there are more pics, but I can upload only 5 photo's at the time. most of them speak for them selves.

    regards, Bertus


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