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New owner of Schaublin 102 with greased headstock bearings.

Joined
Jun 28, 2020
Hi. I'm new to Practical Machinist. I joined because looking at other threads about Schaublin lathes, the answers seem to be from people who really know what they are talking about, not just general answers,so I hope you can help with some advice.
I have just bought a Schaublin 102 (1969, headstock without back-gear, on a steel cabinet stand, lever opertated W20 collets)which genuinely seems to have had very little use, but with it came a service schedule from a previous owner which showed a photo with the 'grease' points on the headstock marked, and instructions to grease once every 6 months.I have taken out the 'grease' nipples, and sure enough there is grease inside,not oil as per the service schedule I can find on the internet.
Should a 102 of this age be oiled or greased? If the answer is oil, I will have to clean the grease out of the bearings and see what happens. I am hoping that it has been used so little that there won't have been damage of course (!). The instructions for removal of the spindle in the pdf instruction manual I can find on the internet seem straightforward, althought the part numbers are different (it is for a W25 spindle though). Is it as easy as it sounds?
More importantly, is it as easy to put back together! I am especially thinking of the tolerences for radial play and end play. Will dismantling and cleaning inevitable mess these up, or should it go back together ok, assuming the bearings are alright?
How and where should the play be measured? On the spindle nose? By manually pushing/pulling the spindle while stationary? With the lathe running? Or is there a certain procedure to follow?
Many thanks.
 
Hi Phil

I know the 102-80 quite well. I also changed bearings on W20 and W25 Headstocks.
I discussed the question oil vs grease a lot with various people.

The conclusion for me is that you use special modern grease like the ones from Kluber.
At my current Schaublin W25 with cast-iron base I use oil ISO VG-22

Normally when I get a used headstock I take it apart and check the bearings.
At the beginning it was bit tricky. But the one with a gear is easy to take it apart.
Be careful when you are going to replace the gears.

The front bearing for the standard W-headstocks is a NN3009. For F- based headstock it is a NN3011.
The two bearings in the back are B7208-E-T-P4S-UL
With those you have to be careful. They are honed for the spindle.
So you have to measure the tolerance. You can have the bearing in different tolerances like -5µm, -4µm, -3µm

To get of the front bearing you need a special tool. Sorry I don't know how it is called in english.
Those are two wedge which can be put between spindlering and the bearing. When you press them together the press of the bearing from the spindel.
You can make them easily from aluminium.

You need also a press to get the spindle out of the headstock because the countershafts a fitting very well.
After that you can change or clean the bearings.

It is easy to put it back together. Then you have to measure the play. Write it down.
Now you have to disassemble the spindle from the headstock again.
There is a formula in the manual how much you have to lock the counternut to minimize the play.
Sometimes you have to do it 3 to 5 times until the play is perfect.
Be aware that the real play has to be measure when the headstock has turned for some time.
Otherwise you can ruin the bearings.

There are protocols in the manual how to measure the play.
Axial and radial. Axial in the from while pushing the spindle to the side.
Radial from the back.

You need a good micrometer gauge for that.

I hope I could help you.

Best regards
Juergen
 
Thanks Juergen. That is a really detailed and useful reply. From the old manual available online it sounded quite easy, but it is obviously a bit harder in reality. the grease that has been used is almost clear, rather than yellow. Does that sound like it might be like the Kluber grease? If someone has been using a good alternative to oil, it might be better to leave it alone as the bearings seem ok at the moment.
Phil.
 
Hi Phil
It is hard to say which grease was used.
The Kluber grease which I use is mostly white and can be transparent.
If the headstock is not getting to warm (handwarm), then everything seems to be okay.
If there is no strange noise and not to much bearing clearance, let it be.

Best regards
Juergen
 
My Schaublin manual says "good mineral oil with viscosity of 3 deg F at 50 deg C" And in bold print, never use grease.
The nipples on top of the head are for an oil pump gun.
 








 
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