Newly Acquired Cazeneuve HB 575.. Need Tool Post!!
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    Default Newly Acquired Cazeneuve HB 575.. Need Tool Post!!

    Hello Gentlemen.. I just acquired a used but in very good shape, Cazeneuve HB 575 lathe for my small machine/hobby shop.. The only problem thus far is, the tool post is missing.. Just the stud remains in the compound.. I attached some photos below..

    Anyone know of a parts supplier or used market for this? Should I put a generic one in its place? Thanks Much,

    More pictures to follow in the coming weeks when it arrives..









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    I would be inclined to go with an Aloris style toolpost.

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    Quote Originally Posted by crcarson26 View Post
    the tool post is missing.. Just the stud remains in the compound.
    .
    .
    Anyone know of a parts supplier or used market for this?
    Cazeneuve. France. The OEM, still in business:

    http://www.cazeneuve.fr/service-en

    As with the HBX-360, it is a proprietary mount, and "most often" seen with a compact 4-Way on old, old HB / HBX, a Multifix QCTP on not QUITE so old to the present-day Optica models.

    http://www.cazeneuve.fr/machines-en/optica-lathes

    Should I put a generic one in its place? Thanks Much,
    One can mount anything you want. Several folk already have.

    Not hard. Not even all that tedious. Just "different" than the more common Tee-slot is all.

    Given it has the space for a Multifix as was OEM, that would be the best one for it. Even if budget means it has to be a clone, it will have a stiffer base than an Aloris/clone.

    "Might" even fit the existing post? Some other Pilgrim's input needed on that. I'm a cheapskate, so prefer 4-Ways so as to not need a raft of toolholders.

    Spindle mount is also proprietary. That part is harder. Or simply more expensive. Ladner.fr has the backplates as well as the Cazeneuve factory.

    Cazeneuve's customer service / parts department has had good reviews, even very recently. Language is not a problem, nor shipping. Nothing is "cheap", modern-era, but the prices seen so far are reasonable. And the goods are AVAILABLE, which is not true of all Old Iron, Monarch one of the few other well-supported ones.

    More news to the good side is that HBX lathes just MIGHT have the best and most detailed technical documentation available as any lathe ever built, anywhere, any era in history. And then.. several dedicated PM members have expanded on it as well.

    Downside is it is all THERE, or tries to be, or needs the help of about 30 patents which are also very well done and online, but most of it isn't all that easy to UNDERSTAND, and that is a weirdness-in-a-good-way thing, not a language-poorly-translated thing atall! The translations are very good, actually.

    You'd have to know two generations of genius-level engineers, Henri Bruet, elder and younger, then multiply that by the special flavour of one small corner of France as to the outlook on how to address a challenge.

    It has long been a "French thing" to solve a problem without the boredom of doing it the same way anyone ELSE had already done! Or would ever DARE to do, in future!

    Think Ettore Bugatti (transplanted Italian, actually, but that wasn't new..).

    Or André-Gustave Citroën (Polish Jewish emigre, fruit merchant ancestry, literally "Lemon man", his G'Dad's era).

    Or Le Rhône aircraft engines... or so some thinkle peeped they were!



    What did DeGaulle allegedly say?

    "How can anyone be expected to govern a nation with over 400 varieties of cheese?"

    Welcome to THAT club, too!

    Wine, women, cheese, bread, fine-dining, or machine-tools, not much of anything French will ever be DULL!

    Not-even the HBX lathes built by Nardini in Brazil, a Japanese captive partner in Japan, or a shorter-lived one in Spain.



    Bill

    HBX-360-BC, first-generation (cast base, not weldment)

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    Hey Bill.. Yes I am leaning towards the Multifix as well.. I believe the correct size for this machine is the Size C.. You seem to have an abundance of knowledge on this machine.. I may bug you in the near future for guidance and questions as I get this beast installed and thoroughly cleaned.. More pics and info to come!! CHeers,

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    Quote Originally Posted by crcarson26 View Post
    Hey Bill.. Yes I am leaning towards the Multifix as well.. I believe the correct size for this machine is the Size C.. You seem to have an abundance of knowledge on this machine.. I may bug you in the near future for guidance and questions as I get this beast installed and thoroughly cleaned.. More pics and info to come!! CHeers,
    "Abundance" thank to Milacron, both personally, as a machinery dealer, and in his role of PM founder, actually.

    He had my lathe for "a while". As we know, he gets curious and digs into "interesting" or unusual machines as cross his dock. His interest, in turn, may have been raised by earlier-posters also "right here on PM", such as Ole Steen, pastypies, and a few others.

    That has continued to the present-day, Cazeneuve contributors among some of the most considerate as to attention to detail and highest-grade of their contributions as ever were, here or anywhere else. Remarkable folks, all, in making it easier for each of the next.

    Milacron made comparisons, Cazeneuve's optional TS with comparable Schaublin tailstocks, etc. Eventually, he got MY curiosity ramped-up to where I bought the very machine he had been playing with for myself. Flew South, picked up my "usual" easy-driving 26-foot Penske box truck, found his hide-out, booked a nearby room.

    Next day, he loaded it himself - dab hand with a FL, Milacron is, could probably thread a needle.

    I then hauled it home to Virgininyah,. Still learning, such "spare time" as I have, but it's a damned good lathe with not a lot of wear nor need of much spend. So far.

    Your one looks clean and low-wear as well.

    So.. dig ye for treasure - "right here, on PM".

    Create a folder, drop into it links to all threads Cazeneuve HB, the smaller 360 included, and you'll soon know a great deal about OTHER sources, too - same place I got my info from!



    Not only is Cazeneuve still in biz, the "chassis" of the Siemens-equipped CNC/aided-manual or "teach-in: hybrid lathes appears to be much the same as it ever was.

    Nor are these actually "minority" or "niche" lathes.

    Machine-tools, durable goods if ever were, and with "obsolete" not the same as "useless", can last longer than their owners' life-spans, ergo don't sell like Big Macs nor even automobiles do.

    But with over 40,000 HB series lathes delivered, and not having ceased, yet? It's a wonder we don't see more Cazeneuve's, even in the USA.

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    I've had my 575 for a few years and it came with an Aloris C size wedge and a piston style spare tool post.
    But it also came with a dozen holders so changing would not be cost effective.
    I'm more than happy with it.
    The oil sump mod I did within the last couple years gives me pressure adjustment when temps fluctuate in the shop.

    mike

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    Quote Originally Posted by mjk View Post
    I've had my 575 for a few years and it came with an Aloris C size wedge and a piston style spare tool post.
    But it also came with a dozen holders so changing would not be cost effective.
    I'm more than happy with it.
    The oil sump mod I did within the last couple years gives me pressure adjustment when temps fluctuate in the shop.

    mike
    Hey Mike,

    I am just about to pull the trigger on the Create brand multifix kit.. Do you find the Size C to be the proper size for our machine? Wanted to get some feedback from someone with experience on this machine before I decided on the size.

    Cheers,

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    looks like a nice one! congrats, do you mind revealing the price paid?
    as to the multifix size that fits, yes, prob. "C", but what is the center hight above the compound in MM?

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    Quote Originally Posted by cyanidekid View Post
    looks like a nice one! congrats, do you mind revealing the price paid?
    as to the multifix size that fits, yes, prob. "C", but what is the center hight above the compound in MM?
    CAVEAT: Good news more than other, but Cazeneuve compounds don't ordinarily have the classical Tee slot. They utilize a dowel-pinned and SHCS attached mounting plate, instead.

    Which means.. by addressing the thickness of the plate - or a(ny) shop-fabbed replacement - one can "decide" which size-family of TP to use, QCTP or any other.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    CAVEAT: Good news more than other, but Cazeneuve compounds don't ordinarily have the classical Tee slot. They utilize a dowel-pinned and SHCS attached mounting plate, instead.

    Which means.. by addressing the thickness of the plate - or a(ny) shop-fabbed replacement - one can "decide" which size-family of TP to use, QCTP or any other.
    well of course, BUT it is advantageous to use the largest one that fits, if you don't mind paying the premium for the larger size components, which does add up. the multifix style size "B" will be just fine also, and save some real dollas in the tool holders, so its probably the way to go. they will take 25MM shank tooling if you have at least 39MM center hight above the compound, if memory serves me.

    (the lack of a T slot hurts not at all, its the hight that matters. yes, you can always raise a smaller one up to work, but it adds rigidity and capacity to go bigger)

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    Quote Originally Posted by cyanidekid View Post
    (the lack of a T slot hurts not at all, its the hight that matters. yes, you can always raise a smaller one up to work, but it adds rigidity and capacity to go bigger)
    I'm a 4-Way guy, so don't have any QCTP, HB or other.

    All the Multifix I've seen in Cazeneuve fotos, latest model "Optika" included, were on the massive side. Their neat Optika video actually cuts away in several places to compare the older HB - same Multifix - so yazz. The biggest ones that would FIT.

    They are rather stout lathes for their relatively modest mass, after all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cyanidekid View Post
    looks like a nice one! congrats, do you mind revealing the price paid?
    as to the multifix size that fits, yes, prob. "C", but what is the center hight above the compound in MM?
    No I don’t mind.. I paid $2650 shipped.. I purchased it at auction, purely off of the photos above.. I am told it’s in great shape, but it’s been sitting for many years.. it has a 12” 6 jaw chuck mounted on it that I plan on freshening up.. came with the steady rest.. but.. sadly it’s missing the tool post, and the chip pan.. Also missing a lower cast panel cover down by the motor on the back of the gear case.. 12 HP motor.. it’s on its way to me now, and hopefully will arrive this coming week.. I plan on taking my time getting it cleaned up, leveled on some feet, new belts, new fluids, etc..

    I am not sure of the center height measurement above the compound as of yet but I will post it as soon as the machine arrives..

    Excited would be an understatement!!

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    I'd say at $2650 shipped you stole it.
    Since mine came with the C size Aloris and a good assortment of tooling and I'm used to that style , I didn't consider changing. The C size allows me also to interchange 1" tooling that I use for another lathe in the shop. The drawback of the the Aloris style is the manual adjustment of "clocking" the tool related to work center-line. But I'm use to it and except for threading and knurling, a variance doesn't hurt my work(as long as its error is in the right way)
    I'll measure Monday morning and post the height.
    I bought this lathe because I wanted/not needed a lathe I could swing 20" for work that I have been doing on a VMC.
    After I used it I found myself doing work that the 12" normally would do because of the joy it was to run.
    My small lathe doesn't have auto kickout on the feed, this one repeats every time.
    Easily adjustable cross-slide stop makes threading easy for the less experienced(me)

    Belt set is not an expensive item
    Oil change was a pain before the mods I did( check my post from a couple years ago)
    Main seal at chuck weeps but apparently a common issue
    Realizing how easy the crosslide lube pump is to use and load was a surprise
    Chip pan is huge and includes pump mount, I imagine finding an original replacement near impossible, fabbing one to suit your needs the best bet.
    Make sure threading gears are showing signs of oil flowing.
    If not pull and find the blockage.
    I replaced rubber "retainers" with shaft collars for the threading gears

    This lathe will NOT do a powered reverse from forward regardless of spindle rpm

    You'll have to get used to watching out for the speed shift levers. In the beginning they always seemed to get in the way when near the machine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mjk View Post
    I'd say at $2650 shipped you stole it.
    Since mine came with the C size Aloris and a good assortment of tooling and I'm used to that style , I didn't consider changing. The C size allows me also to interchange 1" tooling that I use for another lathe in the shop. The drawback of the the Aloris style is the manual adjustment of "clocking" the tool related to work center-line. But I'm use to it and except for threading and knurling, a variance doesn't hurt my work(as long as its error is in the right way)
    I'll measure Monday morning and post the height.
    I bought this lathe because I wanted/not needed a lathe I could swing 20" for work that I have been doing on a VMC.
    After I used it I found myself doing work that the 12" normally would do because of the joy it was to run.
    My small lathe doesn't have auto kickout on the feed, this one repeats every time.
    Easily adjustable cross-slide stop makes threading easy for the less experienced(me)

    Belt set is not an expensive item
    Oil change was a pain before the mods I did( check my post from a couple years ago)
    Main seal at chuck weeps but apparently a common issue
    Realizing how easy the crosslide lube pump is to use and load was a surprise
    Chip pan is huge and includes pump mount, I imagine finding an original replacement near impossible, fabbing one to suit your needs the best bet.
    Make sure threading gears are showing signs of oil flowing.
    If not pull and find the blockage.
    I replaced rubber "retainers" with shaft collars for the threading gears

    This lathe will NOT do a powered reverse from forward regardless of spindle rpm

    You'll have to get used to watching out for the speed shift levers. In the beginning they always seemed to get in the way when near the machine.

    Excellent, Thanks for the info.. That would be a huge help if you could measure the post to center height. I will for sure look up your previous postings regarding the oil mods. I have read this is a common and necessary mod. Is the spindle seal worth replacing if weeping you think? I have much to learn on this beast.

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    Height from spindle ctr to the base of the tool post is 1.75"
    The round support disk is 5-1/2" x 1" thick and was on my lathe when I purchased it

    I can't justify a spindle tear down for the small amount of weeping the seal does.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 1021190750.jpg  

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    After looking again at the op's pics, I don't think that is the Caz chuck mount.
    I'm sure Bill can chime in ...a D Style?

    The op also has the slick tail stock

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    Quote Originally Posted by mjk View Post
    After looking again at the op's pics, I don't think that is the Caz chuck mount.
    I'm sure Bill can chime in ...a D Style?

    The op also has the slick tail stock
    Keen eye, thanks!

    D1 was optional, yes. Mic on a pin diameter tells which.

    And that wants a second goat sacrificed for the lower-cost and wider availability of D1-(n) nose-art!

    "Envy" mode on .... lucky divil!



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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Keen eye, thanks!

    D1 was optional, yes. Mic on a pin diameter tells which.

    And that wants a second goat sacrificed for the lower-cost and wider availability of D1-(n) nose-art!

    "Envy" mode on .... lucky divil!


    I am not sure I understand.. are you referring to my chuck mount? Also, what is the width of the compound slide? The Create website states a maximum of 180 mm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by crcarson26 View Post
    I am not sure I understand.. are you referring to my chuck mount? Also, what is the width of the compound slide? The Create website states a maximum of 180 mm.
    Yes. The tell-tale is what appear to be D1 camlocks.

    "Appear to be" needs a closer look. The Cazeneuve proprietary spindle nose is a hybrid with two methods of attach, meant to be used either/or not both at once.

    It has a locating taper and "stop flat" where the nose-art is meant to be drawn up the taper to an interference fit. It has provsion for face bolting, same as an A series.

    It also has pinch screws at the outer periphery where the backplate has a socket, its thick rim overlapping a shoulder on the spindle nose. It is pulled-in by wedging action of one side of the conical tip of the fat screws acting in not-quite mating conical sockets on the shoulder of the spindle nose.

    The effect is similar to a D1 camming action as to drawing the plate up the taper, but requires less than half the longitudinal daylight to implement. Less expensive? Only if it is made to superb accuracy at modest cost. As Cazeneuve did do. OTOH, but is not easy to DIY to the accuracy wanted, all three fits at once.

    As with MOST things on a Cazeneuve, the taper involved is also proprietary.



    We 'think' we are looking at the optional D1, but.. those pinch screws also have rectangular female socket heads, so.. .

    Wait and hope you have the global-standard D1, not the scarcer proprietary mount.
    It will be easier and less-costly to find goods that already fit.

    The width of the top plate on my HBX-360-BC compound's top is about 117 mm, but that's a smaller lathe, and AFAIK, that plate on my one was a prior owner's shop-fab as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by crcarson26 View Post
    No I don’t mind.. I paid $2650 shipped.. I purchased it at auction, purely off of the photos above.. I am told it’s in great shape, but it’s been sitting for many years.. it has a 12” 6 jaw chuck mounted on it that I plan on freshening up.. came with the steady rest.. but.. sadly it’s missing the tool post, and the chip pan.. Also missing a lower cast panel cover down by the motor on the back of the gear case.. 12 HP motor.. it’s on its way to me now, and hopefully will arrive this coming week.. I plan on taking my time getting it cleaned up, leveled on some feet, new belts, new fluids, etc..

    I am not sure of the center height measurement above the compound as of yet but I will post it as soon as the machine arrives..

    Excited would be an understatement!!
    haha! now I'm sorry I asked.. 2650 shipped, Damb..


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