Thread: Newly Acquired Cazeneuve HB 575.. Need Tool Post!!

If yo look at my earlier post of a pic taken (for reference only)the round tool post support disk is 5-1/2" in diam which is close to the slide width

Your lathe is newer than mine, but should have some of the same iron/castings

Originally Posted by mjk

I'd say at $2650 shipped you stole it.
Since mine came with the C size Aloris and a good assortment of tooling and I'm used to that style , I didn't consider changing. The C size allows me also to interchange 1" tooling that I use for another lathe in the shop. The drawback of the the Aloris style is the manual adjustment of "clocking" the tool related to work center-line. But I'm use to it and except for threading and knurling, a variance doesn't hurt my work(as long as its error is in the right way)
I'll measure Monday morning and post the height.
I bought this lathe because I wanted/not needed a lathe I could swing 20" for work that I have been doing on a VMC.
After I used it I found myself doing work that the 12" normally would do because of the joy it was to run.
My small lathe doesn't have auto kickout on the feed, this one repeats every time.
Easily adjustable cross-slide stop makes threading easy for the less experienced(me)

Belt set is not an expensive item
Oil change was a pain before the mods I did( check my post from a couple years ago)
Main seal at chuck weeps but apparently a common issue
Realizing how easy the crosslide lube pump is to use and load was a surprise
Chip pan is huge and includes pump mount, I imagine finding an original replacement near impossible, fabbing one to suit your needs the best bet.
Make sure threading gears are showing signs of oil flowing.
If not pull and find the blockage.
I replaced rubber "retainers" with shaft collars for the threading gears

This lathe will NOT do a powered reverse from forward regardless of spindle rpm

You'll have to get used to watching out for the speed shift levers. In the beginning they always seemed to get in the way when near the machine.

Yes I have been looking at some pictures online of the chip pan, and I'll probably look around for a little while to see if one pops up. If not, I suppose I'll fab one up as close as I can to the original. Can you send me what the approximate dimensions and thickness is of the original chip pan? Is it cast? Or is it sheet metal, or thicker (3/16"-ish) plate? It may be a fun project to work on this winter. If you could take some closeup photos of the pan, the pump, etc. I'd greatly appreciate it!!

Originally Posted by crcarson26

Yes I have been looking at some pictures online of the chip pan, and I'll probably look around for a little while to see if one pops up. If not, I suppose I'll fab one up as close as I can to the original. Can you send me what the approximate dimensions and thickness is of the original chip pan? Is it cast? Or is it sheet metal, or thicker (3/16"-ish) plate? It may be a fun project to work on this winter. If you could take some closeup photos of the pan, the pump, etc. I'd greatly appreciate it!!

I have never even been "in the same room" as your model, but the HBX-360 doesn't HAVE a "chip pan" in the conventional sense. What it has instead are "chutes" in the bed casting that direct chips and coolant out the back, down low, then a sort of long rectangular basin in the top of the base casting with sort of filter-dam-ish covered returns for the coolant to get back into the integral tanks underneath - in the base.

Operator side, there are two lift-off sheet metal structures.

Upper one directs chips and coolants under the bed, into the collection area. Lower one is a flat privacy cover only, full-width, provides access to motor and the (several) pumps - my one having been built as a tracer.

Might want to wait and see what you HAVE and really need? Or not need?

Anything that works, works, though I'd suggest sheet galvanized or Shiney-wood - even Stainless. One can find it cheap enough.

Not plastics. Not likely to catch afire, but chips hot enough can embed, sharp ones can cut, plus some coolant components can embrittle or soften some plastics, etc.

Originally Posted by thermite

I have never even been "in the same room" as your model, but the HBX-360 doesn't HAVE a "chip pan" in the conventional sense. What it has instead are "chutes" in the bed casting that direct chips and coolant out the back, down low, then a sort of long rectangular basin in the top of the base casting with sort of filter-dam-ish covered returns for the coolant to get back into the integral tanks underneath - in the base.

Operator side, there are two lift-off sheet metal structures.

Upper one directs chips and coolants under the bed, into the collection area. Lower one is a flat privacy cover only, full-width, provides access to motor and the (several) pumps - my one having been built as a tracer.

Might want to wait and see what you HAVE and really need? Or not need?

Anything that works, works, though I'd suggest sheet galvanized or Shiney-wood - even Stainless. One can find it cheap enough.

Not plastics. Not likely to catch afire, but chips hot enough can embed, sharp ones can cut, plus some coolant components can embrittle or soften some plastics, etc.

Yeah sounds good. I will see what I have tomorrow, as its scheduled to be delivered mid-morning. I'll post some pics when I get a chance.

Originally Posted by crcarson26

Yeah sounds good. I will see what I have tomorrow, as its scheduled to be delivered mid-morning. I'll post some pics when I get a chance.

I had not looked until just now, since I don't HAVE the same Cazeneuve, but..
these pages:

Cazeneuve Lathes Page 2

DO show what appears to be a sheet-steel weldment for a chip "bin" that is drag-out, not roll-out. I see no casters, and the bottom seems flat to the floor. The juice-pump is fitted to a cavity in it.

I'd suggest you want steel or CI wheels, not resilient ones (chips embed.) whether castering, fixed, or a combination.

I'd also posit that the juice pump might be better done if it can be lifted in and out instead of living in a cavity in the side of the bin/tank, ELSE, "remoted" off the back of the tank or the body of the lathe and/or with just the pickup hose either dropped over the side or attached with a quick-disconnect.

Plenty of standard parts around that are easily adapted. Single-phase pumps work fine, eliminate one more complexity as to 3-Phase wiring. None of that sort of fab is exactly rocket insemination.

So long as it works well, "looks" won't be hard to make reasonably pleasant, either.

I'll take some measurements of mine.
It has no wheels/rollers.
Empty requires substantial effort to pull out the back as brake pedal/bar runs across the front
I'm guessing 260-300 lbs.
Welded steel.
And I don't have the pump installed.
Fabrication with available tools or what your willing to spend will be one option.

Pics from the day I went to see mine.

Good points mjk has made.

Not a situation happy with limited access space to the rear.

I'd suggest that a shallower tray could be made with rails so as to allow it to come out the front, ABOVE the foot control rail AND/OR out the back - either way.

That it could be "tiltable" not just removable, once pulled out, either way.

Chips could then be raked or shoveled clear.

No built-in coolant sump, just a tilt to the bottom toward a slot or funnel for drain.

Under it, at floor-level, a second, shallower pan that could be moved independently would catch the coolant for filtering and pumped recycling.

That second, lower "sump" pan could be pulled out on rollers for cleanup.

Both pans end up lighter. Each pan is easier to manipulate.

"2 pan plans worth" ... but this cannot possibly be an original idea. There is ALWAYS "prior art". There must be examples "out there in PM land" as can be used for guidance.

33" x 60" x 20" tall close to the size of a full size mattress

building off of Bills comments

If I were to have to build one I would create a trough/V shape tilted down away from the headstock with a drain to a separate resovoir for a sump tank.

With the original I find it way to easy to let chips accumulate and letting them go till.....next week...next month and then its a 2 hour job.
Then there's the issue of if you drop something in the cave, finding it

If I was using this lathe as a daily job runner with large amounts of chip creation a big tray makes sense

Originally Posted by mjk

If I was using this lathe as a daily job runner with large amounts of chip creation a big tray makes sense

In a machine-hall of some factory product, there were probably support staff folk who just went down the line with a cart emptying one after another.

Smaller HBX-360, the back "wall panel" gave access, or one could rake from TS end.

"Industrial" machines, the lot of them so chips would soon "be there".

Well Gentlemen.. I have terrible news.. I am absolutely sick to my stomach and disgusted at how incompetent and mindless some people are.. To say I almost ending up in Jail this afternoon is an understatement.. It was everything I could do to not have a proper Blown-Gasket meltdown when my lathe arrived.. YRC Freight is the company I paid to ship my lathe..

I showed all of you the photos at the beginning of this thread showing the condition of my lathe..

This is what showed up today..

































FUCK!!!!!!!

Looks like it's been dropped. Was this shipment insured?

Originally Posted by crcarson26

Well Gentlemen.. I have terrible news.. I am absolutely sick to my stomach and disgusted at how incompetent and mindless some people are.. To say I almost ending up in Jail this afternoon is an understatement.. It was everything I could do to not have a proper Blown-Gasket meltdown when my lathe arrived.. YRC Freight is the company I paid to ship my lathe..

I showed all of you the photos at the beginning of this thread showing the condition of my lathe..

This is what showed up today..

































FUCK!!!!!!!

Sadly, yes. Whomever was meant to prepare it for shipping. Clearly DID NO SUCH THING! Get more pictures, time dated.

Call yer Lawster. Or FIND one.

I'd claim back the full price from the SELLER, plus cost of disposal or shipping it back, then go find another lathe.

A wiser carrier would have refused it at pick up. No way to safely move a machine that heavy perched atop recycled strike-anywhere kitchen-match boxes.

I used to look at pics of 67 GTO's that had been in accidents and get a sick feeling in my stomach.
After following the op's posting about a lathe I also had, I was looking forward to sharing/trading info.
Now I have that same sick feeling looking at the pics.
My condolences.
There's plenty of what could be said for what could have been done, but I agree with Bill, contact a lawyer.
Your next shock will probably be when you find out the insured value.
Shipping by a common carrier usually gives you insurance based on weight, remotely possible by value only if all the correct boxes are checked.
Please keep us updated as painful as it is.
I would suggest a link to the rigging section once settled.
Mike

That sucks, obviously. I would have told them that is not my lathe and showed them a photo of when you went to look at it and said "this is my lathe".
Turned around and walked away.
I always pay the extra to have a machine shipped strapped and tarped on a dedicated flatbed by a competent driver working for a company specializing in machinery transport. Loaded by the seller the not touched until I unload.

Originally Posted by rustytool

That sucks, obviously. I would have told them that is not my lathe and showed them a photo of when you went to look at it and said "this is my lathe".
Turned around and walked away.

That's about what I'd be asking my Lawster to do. Shipper's gross negligence, plus Virginia having treble damages for "Fraud in the Inducement" IIRC.

Hide behind fine print? B'lieve I'd be inclined to make life expensively interesting, regardless.

Okay.. So.. Update time on the worst Lathe catastrophe of 2019!!

After an endless day yesterday of cursing and cringing.. got about 2 hours of sleep last night.. woke up early to lift the machine off the mountain of matchsticks.. Built a proper platform out of a dozen 4x4’s lagged to a couple beefy pallets.. and got the machine unwrapped from the plastic to get a proper look at what we are looking at.. and I “think” there might be a glimmer of hope on the horizon.. So.. itemized list time..

Ways: Great Condition - Not damaged
Tail Stock: Great Condition - Not damaged
Steady Rest: Great Condition - Not Damaged
Carriage: Only damage is broken handles/wheels. Not cracked, not leaking, no machined surfaces harmed.
Leadscrew: Great Condition - Not damaged
Power feeds: Great Condition - Not damaged
Chuck: Great Condition - Not damaged
Spindle Gearbox: Great Condition on gears/shafts.. Need to make a plate to cover the new bay window where the DRO mount ripped a hole in the top casting.. did not effect gears/shafts as all.
Cast Base: Only damage is motor mount plate damaged as noted in photos.
Sheet metal Panel Covers - All missing or smashed - Need to fab new ones.
Motor w/ Snout Gear Box: Severely Damaged - Cracked Case in multiple places - I don't think its usable. More to come on this piece upon closer instpection.

So now that we all have a Go - No Go list.. Here is what I’m thinking.. And all input on these ideas are welcome..

I can fab up a new motor mount plate out of 3/4” mild steel that properly bolts through the thick load-bearing casting.. Now, I imagine a NOS motor and snout gearbox combo from Cazeneuve would be $5000-$10,000 which I will get a quote for, for insurance reasons, but also which I can not afford at this time.

So.. the only option I am left with is..

A modernized power update.

I want to install a new 12 HP motor, ditch the proprietary snout gearbox, mount the pulley directly to the motor shaft, and run it on a VFD inverter with a throttle knob and tachometer.

I think this is economical, achievable, and I don’t have to throw away this gorgeous lathe!!

Thoughts? Am I missing anything? I have been doing research and reading on inverter machine conversions, and they seem pretty straightforward given the components. Anyone with knowledge of converting an old lathe to inverter technology is most welcome to chime in and throw me a bone.

Cheers,

Well, holy crap, that’s one of those things I wish I had never seen.

Three thoughts for now;

1)Shipping a machine via ltl freight hauler is a terrible idea.

2) before you even consider touching it (obviously too late) get some legal advice regarding your options.

3)if too late for the above, (looks like it and you have already accepted possession), before doing anything else, determine whether the bed has sustained damage. If so, and that is quite possible, it will render all other efforts futile. Fixing the sheet metal on a lathe with a seriously tweaked bed is pointless.

I’m going to open another beer and tune in to the BBC, maybe some news of war and mass murder will cheer me up.

That sucks seriously. I can see where you would be upset, it would be bad enough if you could make them send you a new one, never mind hard to find and probably unaffordable anyway if new.

If folks are unaware , there are companies that specialize in insurance for shipments, someone here 3/4 years ago schooled me on them.

I shipped a pallet from Ca to Ct via YRC . The pallet was standard size and new, with 600# of wooden crates on it, wrapped in shrink wrap. It was about $380 for the shipping, and another $80 for a separate full replacement value insurance rider for $15,000.
My shipment arrived without even a puncture thru the shrink wrap, which is good because like the OPs lathe, it was pretty much not replaceable.

I had another YRC (prior to my learning about the insurance riders)that mimics the OPs, a 16’x3’x3’ box coming from Wa to Ct with custom made sheet metal for an antique camper arrived with fork truck tine holes right thru the side of the box and sheet metal, that shipment delivery was refused!!

I hope you can resolve something to your satisfaction!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Originally Posted by crcarson26

Okay.. So.. Update time on the worst Lathe catastrophe of 2019!!
So now that we all have a Go - No Go list.. Here is what I’m thinking.. And all input on these ideas are welcome..

I can fab up a new motor mount plate out of 3/4” mild steel that properly bolts through the thick load-bearing casting.. Now, I imagine a NOS motor and snout gearbox combo from Cazeneuve would be $5000-$10,000 which I will get a quote for, for insurance reasons, but also which I can not afford at this time.

So.. the only option I am left with is..

A modernized power update.

I want to install a new 12 HP motor, ditch the proprietary snout gearbox, mount the pulley directly to the motor shaft, and run it on a VFD inverter with a throttle knob and tachometer.

I think this is economical, achievable, and I don’t have to throw away this gorgeous lathe!!

Thoughts? Am I missing anything? I have been doing research and reading on inverter machine conversions, and they seem pretty straightforward given the components. Anyone with knowledge of converting an old lathe to inverter technology is most welcome to chime in and throw me a bone.

Cheers,

Just sent you an email.

Maybe not so limited on power options.

Let's dig deeper as to understanding the characteristics of the OEM motor - especially the reduction ratio off the gearbox.

What do you have for local power? Utility 3-Phase? Or?

Bill

Keep in mind the gearbox also directly drives the oil pump
Not a deal breaker. but a consideration in your planning.
I would guess a nos gearbox/motor of $10,000 is way low
Not to mention the shifting mechanism

will be sending pm