Newly Acquired Cazeneuve HB 575.. Need Tool Post!! - Page 5
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  1. #81
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    about the whole braking business: my lathe just reverses the motor. it stops immediately. its been doing this for 40 years or so. why dont all manufacturers do this?

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    Wow, what a surprise to find another here working on fixing up their new to you Caz lathe during this quarantine time period. I picked up mine 2 weeks ago and Iíve been working on deep cleaning the cross slide and compound. It was pretty bad after sitting for 15 years without use on a remote ranch in Grass Valley, CA.
    Huge bummer about the failed shipment - many LTL shipping companies are simply horrible, and the insurance is a complete joke. I donít blame you for not turning it away even though the damage appears extensive. These machine are ďworth way more than they are worthĒ as in they are much higher quality than similarly priced or even much more expensive machines. They are fairly rare to come up for sale, so you gotta work with what you got when you find something. At my day job I have both a Mori and a Caz, both in great shape, and I prefer the Caz for most operations, which is why I searched one out for my home shop. Iím working to hook up power today, we will see how that goes

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    @devin_decater I'd love to see some photos of your machine. Since you are at the stage of hooking up wiring, if you could lend your knowledge of how you determine if your machine is wired for 230V or 460V, that would be much appreciated. I may have some questions in the coming weeks as I hope to have my machine up and running while in quarantine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dian View Post
    about the whole braking business: my lathe just reverses the motor. it stops immediately. its been doing this for 40 years or so. why dont all manufacturers do this?
    Because a mechanical brake or clutch yah can "feather" with finesse appropriate to your needs and the tasking to-hand is EASILY an order of magnitude NICER to work with for a skilled operator? War One Niles dinosaurian to HBX-360, I LIKE it that way.

    Besides.. instant-reversing full FIFTY HP driving a 30 inch-plus 4-Jaw with a thousand pounds of workpiece motating is FAR to "dramatic" to want to risk!

    Seven hoss HBX 360 isn't exactly a wimp, and it is "babycakes" - the "runt of the litter" against Cazeneuve's larger 5XX and up lineup.

    Smaller one of the Schaublin tribe, and collet-runner as well, you might be using?

    Hamsters, draft horses, and Elephants cometh to mind..

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    i mean you dont have to stop it instantly, its pretty gradual, but it will do it. (i have not tried it with 100 lbs it the chuck.) the only thing a bit annoying about it: when you stop fast it might reverse on you and you have to stop it again. its a reiden, btw.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dian View Post
    i mean you dont have to stop it instantly, its pretty gradual, but it will do it. (i have not tried it with 100 lbs it the chuck.) the only thing a bit annoying about it: when you stop fast it might reverse on you and you have to stop it again. its a reiden, btw.
    Had to look that up. Lucky Devil! That's a Helluva nice lathe!

    At 9 HP on about the HBX-360 (nominal 14" X 30") frame, you'd be dealing with a tad more energy - closer to the Cazeneuve 5XX series. Not what I would want to be "instant" reversing.

    My 10EE have relay logic on the MG-era one that mitigates braking aggessiveness "well enough" to be right pleasant to operate. Doesn't require any thought, just works.

    The analog Solid State SSD conversion is "4Q", much finer granularity is available as to "ramp" up or down by preset or over-ride. Mine is simply set clear at the most-aggressive end of the range - "nominal" 2 seconds, but usually half that with light work. The way the control works, (single-knob) yah can actually "rock" the spindle between FWD and REV even faster.

    Even so, either are very "gentle" by comparison to 3-P instant reversing.

    And I still prefer the HBX brake system, regardless.

    The mechanically-linked foot treadle immediately moves a switch to cut-off motor power, then goes on to apply frrrriction braking at wotever rate you apply "foot". Variable, IOW.

    It's intuitive to use annnnnd.. by using the foot? The best part may be that it is like having a third hand!



    On that last feature alone, I'd call the foot-treadle worth ADDING to a lathe that didn't already have it. Many already do have it. Japanese, Taiwanese, "Asian" in general more than most, whether mechanical, electrical, or some combination.

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    Quote Originally Posted by crcarson26 View Post
    @devin_decater I'd love to see some photos of your machine. Since you are at the stage of hooking up wiring, if you could lend your knowledge of how you determine if your machine is wired for 230V or 460V, that would be much appreciated. I may have some questions in the coming weeks as I hope to have my machine up and running while in quarantine.


    Iíll try to figure out posting photos, Iíve not spent much time on this particular forum, and not much on forums in general for about 10 years.. I did find that my machine was wired 440, and has been so the entire time the previous owner was running it on single phase 220 with a MONSTER rotary converter. (15+ years...) First clue is behind the switch plate on the tailstock end of the machine. The control transformer is hidden in the upper section of the tailstock pedestal. It is fairly clearly labeled, If you can see ď220Ē engraved, then the plates are set for 440 as the plates go on top of the voltage you are wanting. As for the motor, Iíll try to get the photo posted, but if itís set for 440, the six jumper plates will be stacked in the middle row, and if itís 220 the jumpers will be in two rows, on top and bottom. The motor has 6 wires because it starts in Wye and after 2 seconds of running it switches to Delta. Kind of a soft start setup I guess. (Or sorcery) Once I rewired the motor for 220 it starts quickly and smoothly with only a static convertor. I have a copy of the English manual at work if there is anything specific you would like a quick snap of. After putting all the effort into figuring this all out over the weekend, I checked my results against the manual and verified my findings. I probably should have just made a trip to grab the manual. I probably would have saved some time in the end even with the 1 hour round trip.

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    Quote Originally Posted by crcarson26 View Post
    @devin_decater I'd love to see some photos of your machine. Since you are at the stage of hooking up wiring, if you could lend your knowledge of how you determine if your machine is wired for 230V or 460V, that would be much appreciated. I may have some questions in the coming weeks as I hope to have my machine up and running while in quarantine.
    6febe562-dbc2-4344-9fee-d0967b2baa05.jpg
    The reach lift was well worth the $500 rental.
    ac67f66d-2664-4932-8b1e-02896d38de70.jpg
    The 440 wiring configuration of the motor
    a7bf6a30-df61-4f63-a23e-99e3d6f866d9.jpg
    Cleaning the mud - yes mud - out of the way lube sump. Thankfully I donít think the previous owner knew about the way lube pump. Also I donít think they ran this machine much at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by crcarson26 View Post
    ...how you determine if your machine is wired for 230V or 460V
    Thought we had covered this?

    HBX-360 came with a factory OEM white mylar sheet schematic, 1970's drawing publication date, glued to the inside of the door, rear HS end electrical cabinet that shows where that optioning is done.

    Smaller one is in the factory manual, hard-copy or .pdf.

    A .pdf should be out there, online, on a website in Europe that you can "zoom in" to see that detail if your one is missing?

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    Good to see you're fixing up this nice machine. Hopefully the traces of the transport damage can be erased!

    I saw some Cazeneuve parts for sale, maybe some useful stuff for you? Shipping will be difficult but who knows.

    Cazeneuve HB 575 onderdelen + frame
    N.o.t.k.
    http://link.marktplaats.nl/m15285902...=socialbuttons

  12. #91
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    RE wiring 220/440

    Mine had a nameplate adhered to the "boss" of the shift lever that had the voltage , motor rpm , motor hp,transmission gear qty

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    Quote Originally Posted by mjk View Post
    RE wiring 220/440

    Mine had a nameplate adhered to the "boss" of the shift lever that had the voltage , motor rpm , motor hp,transmission gear qty
    So long as.. one KNOWS the motor IS a dual-Voltage 2XX / 4XX - as Cazenueve's nearly ALWAYS are? It isn't rocket science to sort it out with nothing more than the motor in front of you and a VOM.

    Page Two:

    On "at least" the HBX-360 the buggers squeezed the motor into a tight space by not using a "peckerhead" connection box, and instead brought some of the wires out through a sort of gasketed hole and the rest out through a separate hole.

    PITA to get at as well.

    Tedious, even. VERY!

    Best to yank all the damned pumps and such and pull the motor out, sort and test it on the bench. Reverse the process, put it back in, "known good".

    But still not rocket science. Even on the HBX 360.

    I THINK the 5XX series are actually easier?

  14. #93
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    "I THINK the 5XX series are actually easier?"

    nah, because the wires are bigger....

    With all the wiring connections at the right side of the lathe and the swing out panel, there may be clues to how it is set up.
    The only thing that may be a pita is if it needed to be changed to the other voltage.
    The 575 use a ( STAR > DELTA ) (I think that's what its called, I don't have the manual accessible today) to start the motor. More reason not to do an instant reverse and only use the brake pedal...

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    Looked at the manual last night and it doesn't go into detail other than stating a "Star > Delta with a timer" implying to give the motor more starting torque. Once started you can hear a relay drop out after a few seconds.
    Maybe someone with more electrons in their head can explain and post any issues with attempting to change a pre-wired configuration if other than what you want.

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    Quote Originally Posted by devin_decater View Post
    I’ll try to figure out posting photos, I’ve not spent much time on this particular forum, and not much on forums in general for about 10 years.. I did find that my machine was wired 440, and has been so the entire time the previous owner was running it on single phase 220 with a MONSTER rotary converter. (15+ years...) First clue is behind the switch plate on the tailstock end of the machine. The control transformer is hidden in the upper section of the tailstock pedestal. It is fairly clearly labeled, If you can see “220” engraved, then the plates are set for 440 as the plates go on top of the voltage you are wanting. As for the motor, I’ll try to get the photo posted, but if it’s set for 440, the six jumper plates will be stacked in the middle row, and if it’s 220 the jumpers will be in two rows, on top and bottom. The motor has 6 wires because it starts in Wye and after 2 seconds of running it switches to Delta. Kind of a soft start setup I guess. (Or sorcery) Once I rewired the motor for 220 it starts quickly and smoothly with only a static convertor. I have a copy of the English manual at work if there is anything specific you would like a quick snap of. After putting all the effort into figuring this all out over the weekend, I checked my results against the manual and verified my findings. I probably should have just made a trip to grab the manual. I probably would have saved some time in the end even with the 1 hour round trip.
    Okay thats making more sense.. This cover plate is missing on my machine, must have fallen off during the fall. Would you mind sending me pics of your inside panel of the 500/725 machine when you get chance? Much Appreciated..

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    Quote Originally Posted by crcarson26 View Post
    Okay thats making more sense.. This cover plate is missing on my machine, must have fallen off during the fall. Would you mind sending me pics of your inside panel of the 500/725 machine when you get chance? Much Appreciated..
    c1ffe296-b2d2-4643-bab9-43dd85f2836c.jpg

    Apparently the HB500 - at least in the era this machine was shipped - came with this picture on the inside of that cover. The gist of what I could figure using Google translate is “Did you even look at the manual...?” And “Your tracer pump and coolant pump are not working because you have the phase wired backwards. Make sure the spindle turns -correctly- when you push the handle, not the other way” I’ll try to remember to grab a photo of the wiring diagram from the manual for you on Monday though.

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    b4a10e03-cb84-4bec-b29d-fdcf665c7e9e.jpgda4a5c90-95ed-404f-a770-6ae3347f4520.jpg54f865f8-ca8c-4994-b0ed-fab3b57b4604.jpg

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    24accc92-c4c3-4c03-920a-76d878bb59e6.jpg3a4809d1-52ab-4828-a5eb-a2e07559dcc1.jpg

  20. #99
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    Wow, the upload really compressed those photos. They are pretty much useless. Send me your email address in PM and Iíll get you the full res version, which is actually a bit easier to see than the actual physical manual, ha!

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    Quote Originally Posted by devin_decater View Post
    Wow, the upload really compressed those photos. They are pretty much useless.
    You got that shot right!

    Highly "lossy" compression, too, so moving them over to another toolset and zooming was still useless.

    Email should get y'all decent quality.

    HIS address is already under his login id on the PM email, not PM-PM service.

    Your is not. Yet. But yah both "go direct" after first contact.


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