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Post your Euro-Lathe Pic's 1

Here is a Dubied, purpose built hydraulic tracer, made in Switzerland. I got it from a guy that was going to make pipes for bagpipes but found it too complicated to setup. We are going to use it to make
plastic blowmold plugs, maybe!!!
dubied%20.JPG
 
Working from brochures and limited knowledge, here is my guess as to how the Sag 12 developed. Any corrections and additions gladly accepted.

1 The Sag 12 same as mine (1976). Harold V bought his in 1967. How much earlier did they build them I wonder? Some had single speed motors (4 speeds plus backgear = 8 speeds), some had 2 speed motors (16 speeds)

NOTE I pinched this image from Tony's website. http://www.lathes.co.uk/graziano/index.html

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/PeterS/sag12.gif

2 Sag 12S. This comes from a brochure I have, has '79' on it, possibly means 1979. I haven't seen one of these.
As far as I can tell, this is the same lathe, re-styled castings, new colour, and with Reeves drive in place of the electro-magnetic gearbox. All of the levers seem to be in the same places, just look different. Same specs as to size etc.

Note Grazianos characteristic bed - there are two sets of ways, high and narrow for the tailstock, low, wide and covered for the carriage. This means that the 'high ways' can stop short of the headstock, giving a large natural gap at the chuck - very handy at times. It also means the lower ways can be covered - the protectors are very sturdy steel plates - and you never get swarf on the lower ways.

Also visible is the little lever on RH lower of the apron. You can pre-set 4 depth stops on the bar (shown just below the feed "screw"). Then use the lever to select 1-4. The carriage will stop feeding as soon as the relavant stop is contacted. What happens is, the carriage contacts the stop you have selected, it moves the stop rod longitudinally a very small amount, this disconnects the feed drive in the feed gearbox. I think there must be a clutch in the feed box. It only needs a minute end movement to de-clutch the feed, and it is repeatable. It is very useful when doing small production runs of bearing bores etc. You can have up to 4 stops preset and use them one after the other. When the lever is set to '0', no stops are contacted.

Another neat Graziano feature is just visible. There are holes in the main lathe casting to enable shafts to be put through, and the lathe to be slung easily without doing any damage. You can see one hole at the LH lower in the foot adjuster recess, and the other at the lower RH side.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/PeterS/graz3.jpg

3 Maho Graziano GR 100 W. This comes from a brochure dated Dec 1989. I have never seen one of these lathes, but once again, it still looks like the same Sag 12 under all the styling differences. The specs are still the same. Seems to have gone away from the variable speeds though, they are offering 8 speeds. Weight has gone up from 1000 kg to 1270.
My Sag 12 has a similar (but home made) steel enclosure up the back of the lathe, works well at containing swarf, and has a handy top surface that works as a shelf.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/PeterS/grazgr100w.jpg

Apologies for the wild image sizes. :( How can I re-size them? Do I need to re-scan them? I tried to resize them with the "Paint" software that comes with XP Home, but it just chops the image down so half of the lathe dissapears. Help please!
 
Don,
Is that a Harrison 10AA or Colchester Chipmaster lurking in the background behind your Schaublin? I forget, is the UK part of Europe or not?? ;)
Rich
 
Hi Peter,

The SAG12 looks a lot more "Italian" in the styling than the later lathes, doesn't it?

Then again, some of the squared-off styling the Italians came up with in the late 1970s/early 1980s (I'm thinking of the Ducati 860GT here) was pretty ugly, so the later lathes could just be an example of bad Italian styling.


I think the SAG12 my friend has is a two-speed motor.

cheers,
Michael
 
OK,
Here is one. Nice lathe because I own it. (Anything I own is nice and better than anything else) A bit dirty but it is working lathe making parts. Kind of what they are made to do. Cleans up and displays nicely. Chip pan is out getting new wheels and tires. This is a decent lathe, good speed selection, predictable, with good placement of controls. Meets and exceeds tool room lathe tol. even after all this time. It is noisy, not gears just pumps and motor when idle; you definitely know it is on. That’s OK, I am very deaf. New lathe I have to look at to see if spindle is turning. Kept punching code wondering why spindle won't turn, expecting to hear some noise, nothing, got to look. Lesson learned. Only Italian in the shop and it shows good for them.


OKUMA2_004.jpg
 
My Weilers...


Leeeetle... (92' Matador)
weilermatador.jpg


and Beeeeeg (95' E-50 "hybrid lathe")
weilere50.jpg


Sean

[ 09-17-2004, 04:35 PM: Message edited by: Sean S ]
 
The hybrid looks esp sweet Sean. I'm dying of curiosity where you conjured those two up...somewhere on the West Coast, Canada, Europe or ??

Reason I ask, is out of a gazillion auctions, I've ~never~ seen a single late model Weiler of any sort for sale, much less a CNC one.

(re photo setting, you do love those goldenrod backgrounds, don't ya ? ;) )
 
Thanks Don,
I do like the "goldenrod" background...especially in contrast to the Euro-green. Since it is also our "trademark" ebay background I decided to paint most of the shop in this color. The shop is definately not "suicide grey" now...could be a daycare center if I put up some balloons!

The Matador came completely tooled...most of it new...ways are like new. Faceplate, 3 jaw, 4 jaw, dog driver, live centers (all Rohm) are factory. Steady and follow rests, complete set of euro (W20?) collets, 5 spindle nose adapters (MT and collet) , 3 tailstock adapters (MT), Multifix with 10 holders...etc ... down to the chuck keys it has the original tooling package. I'm pretty happy about that.
I did convert the integral collet closer to 5C so I could use my 3 and 4 jaw Pratt Bernerd 5C chucks (one pictured on top of the headstock), and of course all the other 5C perks. Basically just changed the drawtube and nose adapter.

The E-50 is a neat machine...I'm just starting to get to play with it. It didn't really come with squat...a 3 jaw and a Swiss Multifix with 1 holder (which is why I have my Aloris mounted...I have tons of Aloris holders).
The '50 lets you do angles/tapers at the push of a button...threading with a few buttons...radii with a few buttons, constant surface speed...etc.
It is very much the lathe for, and the crutch for the lazy or lame machinist (read "me").
Although it will accept ISO "data" (g-code) through the data port, it has little facility to edit any program. It actually is very much an assisted manual machine. You can write programs based on geometry and also "teach in".
In '95 it has less CNC-ness to it than the '85 FP4NC.
It is really the FP*NC of lathes and the approach seems quite familiar to me...gaining from my Deckels.

If it makes you feel any better, neither of these came from auction...they were a personal pursuit. After playing with Weilers in Germany, I made the decision to go with them and stick with them just as I have with Deckels.
From that point, it's just a matter of hunting hard enough. I suppose that's not unlike your pursuit of the 160. The only 160's I've played with were in Germany and you have one


Cheers!
Sean
 
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I tried to follow instructions and I hope this works Just trying to show pictures of my sag 12 and not too computer literate . Please help if I did this wrong and any comments welcome Jim
 
Well well what have we here? Graziano? Sag 12? I see the covered ways and the elevated way for the tailstock. Very nice looking and clean. Thanks for showing your machine.
 








 
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