Problems with pre-select gearbox for spindle speeds on Weiler Condor VS

Good morning from Munich,

I have a Weiler Condor VS which we have bought a couple of weeks ago and unfortunately it tilted during transport against a box standing beside it on the lorry. Apart from some broken leavers everything seems to be working fine. The only thing I seem to be too daft to operate properly is the pre-select gearbox. The manual for the machine is still on its way, so no chance to look it up there.

In any case it seems a straight forward operation: Lever to the left or right, select speed, leaver to the right or left again. Now, does anybody know whether there is a trick to it? Or some careful fiddling? Or can something inside have broken? When taking off the selector wheel ( to gain access to the shear pin holding the round piece for the leaver on the shaft as this had to come off to drill the broken leaver out) I noticed that the pre-selector shaft can be moved axially (into and out of the machine's housing by roughly 15mm od 3/4").

Any advice is highly welcome!

Ulrico

Ulrico,

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/v...-matador-vs1-how-change-spindle-speed-198887/

This thread may be of help to you. The Matador has the same preselector box as the Condor (VS models) so the procedure for changing speeds is the same. I doubt if there has been any damage to the box in your mishap with the lathe. The preselector shaft is coupled to the box with a couple of universal joints so without the lever fixed in position it can have the axial movement you have described. This is quite normal.

Hope this helps,

Peter.

I have a Matador and it can be a bit tricky till you get used to it. The manual says you can do while the spindle is coasting to a stop, and I usually wait to it is almost totally stopped or even totally stopped. What sometimes happens is if it is stopped, you make the lever moves, then turn on the spindle and it does not turn. Just try it again and you can feel the gears drop in to place.
If it was tilted make sure you have oil in the box.

Paul

Thank you Peter and Paul,

your advice has been extremely helpful! I've given it some more tries and am slowly getting the tricks on how to operate it. I am also glad to hear that the axial movement is normal. We are still waiting for the documentation of the lathe and it has tempted me to just unbolt the cover to look inside.

Ulrico

Ulrico,

On the Matador if the louvered cover at the left hand end of the lathe is removed, one nut, with a torch the shifting levers etc can be seen so at this stage there should be no need to take the front cover off. Better to wait until the manual turns up. The Condor will be similar. Seeing that you are able to change gears it would appear that there is nothing wrong with the box, just a bit more practise.

Peter

Hi Peter,

the manual has arrived. However, not everything is fine yet, I still seem to be missing some bit of operating wisdom.

I can change the gears in the lower range, and the sequence of speeds seems to be ok. In the upper range everything works fine as well until I reach the speeds 1900 and 2800. These are the highest speeds and they have no equivalent in the lower range (The dial wheel shows no figures in lower range). In "high mode", switching to these speeds the spindle turns slow (60 - 120, something in that range) and makes a deep, slightly grumbling, noise. Shortly after the protective motor switch cuts power off.

Is there any other preparation needed befort switching to these high speeds? The manual speeks of a direct belt drive mode, but I can not figure out from the drawings what this may mean. And what happens if they are selected, but the machine is in "low mode"? The spindle turns, but what happens in the gear box?

REgards, Ulrico

Ulrico,

Just keep in mind that while I am very familiar with my Matador, and the speed changing mechanism is the same, there may be some differences in the switching of the 2 speed motor. Perhaps Norther Singer could cast a bit of light on your problem. He has a couple of Condors.

From what you describe, if all the speeds operate correctly in the low range, assuming you have the 2 speed motor, and they also operate correctly in all but two of the high ranges then there should be no problems electrically. My Matador has the 2 speed motor which in combination with the back-gear gives 36 speeds. The top two speeds in low range have no corresponding high range speeds shown on the dial therefore are not to be used as the spindle speed would be too high for the spindle bearings. I have never attempted to try it out so I have no knowlege of what might happen. Perhaps your model has some kind of protection built in?. I would check the oil level in the preselector box, too little oil, too fast input speed may be a possible cause of your problem.

With regard to the belt drive mode, there is a belt drive from the spindle to the feed box which has nothing to do with the spindle speed. You will see a lever with a sign giving symbols- left hand position is belt drive to the feed box and right hand position is through the gear train from the spindle to the feed box. There is also a lever which has three positions, SZ, O and FZ. When the belt drive is engaged this lever has to be in the O position as this position disengages the spindle from the gear train. In the belt drive position you cannot cut any threads, this is purely for turning and avoids any possibility of gear induced surface imperfections when finishing at the higher speeds. It is all explained in the manual and will become clear to you as you get more familiar with the lathe.

Cheers, Peter

Ulrico,

I have just realised that the "direct beltdrive" you referred to is not the feed box belt drive but is the spindle connection.
The drive train from the motor is as follows. Belt drive to the input shaft of the pre-selector gearbox then belt drive to the spindle. There is a backgear assembly in the headstock which is engaged when the lever on the right hand end of the headstock is engaged to the left. This gives the speeds engraved in red on the speed change dial. When the lever is to the right the backgear is disengaged so the spindle is being directly driven. These speeds are in black on the dial. You apparently have the 2 speed motor in your lathe so what I think has thrown you off a bit is that when you got the lathe the headstock lever was to the left thus all the speeds will have been in backgear. The two blank spaces on the speed dial will be in the red speeds line below the two fastest speeds in black. If the motor is in its high speed mode, #2 on the switch, the speed will be too fast for the backgears thus overloading the motor. You will see 4 rows of speeds on the dial. The first two rows are with the motor in the #1 position on the switch. The red ones are backgear speeds, the black direct drive. The back two rows are with the motor in the #2 position. I hope this clears things up a bit more for you.

Cheers, Peter