Is this Sag 12 worth the price?
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  1. #1
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    Default Is this Sag 12 worth the price?

    I'm looking for a Sag 12 (or something very similar in size/heft and features), and this one turned up 300 miles away.
    It's dirty, lacks tooling, and the seller won't say much about it except that 'it runs'.

    My gut feeling, despite a few doubts, is that it would clean up OK. I see original paint, no broken bits, and a compound showing no impact damage. I'm sure there'll be wear on the ways, but expect that.
    The seller isn't going out of his way to oblige me, and the price (whether on or off fleabay) is firm at $3000, despite the 'obo'.

    I'm prepared to take a moderate amount of risk, but maybe there's too little up-side here. What am I missing?

    --thanks!


    Lathe Graziano Sag 12 with TOOLING | eBay
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails s-l1600.jpg  

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    If going thru ebay, consider that seller will pay fees and will be less likely to dicker on price. If you are really interested, go inspect in person, take cash, try to cut a deal if you like it. It seems a lot of buyers want to haggle on price before they even inspect, as a seller, I can say that this tactic pisses me off, and I will not haggle over the phone, show up with cash and as long as you are realistic, we can probably cut a deal.

    If it sells for 3k on ebay, seller is only going to net about 2.5k, is it worth that to you if fully operational?

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    In theory the way covers protect the ways, good in theory as long as the owner has been prodigous with the way lube, and hasn't been polishing shafts with abrasive materials.

    I did go and see a SAG14 once that had the ways under the covers trashed due to neglect, so I wouldn't buy a Graziano (or any lathe) without an inspection.

    And if the spindle speed control on the right hand side of the saddle stops working it can be hard to fix. I wouldn't buy a SAG12 without seeing it run, and be able to run it up/down using the joystick.

    To me that's a $1500 lathe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dalmatiangirl61 View Post
    If going thru ebay, consider that seller will pay fees and will be less likely to dicker on price. If you are really interested, go inspect in person, take cash, try to cut a deal if you like it. It seems a lot of buyers want to haggle on price before they even inspect, as a seller, I can say that this tactic pisses me off, and I will not haggle over the phone, show up with cash and as long as you are realistic, we can probably cut a deal.

    If it sells for 3k on ebay, seller is only going to net about 2.5k, is it worth that to you if fully operational?
    Well, somehow he got his phone number through ebay, so we've been able to negotiate 'off-ebay', and I did suggest he sell it to me for the asking price minus the ebay fees he'd otherwise pay, but he claims they'll hit him up for a fee anyway, as soon he removes it.

    Anyway, price isn't the primary issue unless there'd be a considerable risk on my part of getting a bum machine. I'll happily pay the asking price if I'm 99% sure the machine is worth it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by triumph406 View Post
    In theory the way covers protect the ways, good in theory as long as the owner has been prodigous with the way lube, and hasn't been polishing shafts with abrasive materials.

    I did go and see a SAG14 once that had the ways under the covers trashed due to neglect, so I wouldn't buy a Graziano (or any lathe) without an inspection.

    And if the spindle speed control on the right hand side of the saddle stops working it can be hard to fix. I wouldn't buy a SAG12 without seeing it run, and be able to run it up/down using the joystick.

    To me that's a $1500 lathe.

    Sure, I'd definitely be prepared to make the trip once I was convinced it was worth it. I just wanted some feedback on the general impression.

    It'd sure be nice if it was a $1500 lathe, I'd buy it in a flash! Maybe you can convince the seller for me

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    If seller cancels the ad, ebay cannot bill him, if you have been conversing on ebay, they might complain and put a black mark next to his name, don't think they can claw any cash.

    If you are looking for a specific machine, you might have to pay a premium, you can probably find a decent lathe for $1500 on auction, but you can't test run and have to be open to different mfrs, if price is low it can be an easy gamble, if its not a "deal" price, it may be too much of a gamble.

    No idea what that lathe is "worth", and price is very dependent on your local market.

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    Yes, correct on all counts.

    I think the (re)seller is spinning a tale of hardship. But with the vagaries of ebay seller fees, I can't be certain.

    Seller has the goods, and can ask whatever they want. I can pay, or walk away. Just bums me out when you know it's just a re-sell of a suspect machine, with the reseller having done nothing to deserve a vast increase in price.
    Then again, we don't 'have' to buy ...right? (just ask my addiction)

    I will moderate my enthusiasm, and do the market (and other used machine buyers) a favor by walking away (while keeping a curious eye on the asking price!)

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    I have a SAG12 which I bought about 10 years ago. Paid $3000 for it but it had been used only for cutting nylon and was carefully maintained. Also came with a good 3-jaw, a drawer full of soft jaws and a well-made collet closer. I really like it; good lathe.

    Absolutely do NOT buy this lathe unless you can run it under power. Shift it thru all the gears and make sure everything works. If one of the electromagnetic clutches is burned out, they are very difficult to repair. Move all of the levers and make sure they work. The way covers do a great job of protecting the ways but also make it difficult to clean and oil them. That lathe needs a pressurized oil gun to properly lubricate and most people don't go to the trouble of finding one. I would have grave misgivings about that particular lathe; it looks like it has never seen a bit of maintenance. And who lets a machine get that filthy? I agree, if everything worked, it's a $1500 lathe.

    Castaic, eh? Just down the road from me. Tell ya what... if the seller is agreeable, for the price of a hamburger I'll drive over and check it out for you.
    Bill

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    Bill, great advice, thanks. Wow, you have one and you're right near there? That's crazy.
    I agree with your take on the machine, from the pics, and w/ erring on the side of caution.
    If only it wasn't so far for me. That, plus the questionability of the machine and it's history is fast ruling it out.

    Well damn, I'll happily buy you a six-pack of your choice, as well as that hamburger, if you'll go give it a quick checkout for me - just PM me your Paypal address! You'd be saving me the time, gas, and possible pointlessness of a 650-mile R/T

    I'll get the adddress and PM you with it. I don't think he'll object.

    PS - Got the address, Bill, and just PM'd it to you

    --thanks
    Dave
    Last edited by shaggy; 10-16-2020 at 12:33 AM.

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    RUN, there are better deals and sellers out there...Phil

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    Ha! Thanks, Phil. That's true, I'm sure.

    Thing is, between hearing 'it's only a $1500 machine' i.e., 1/2 the asking price, and seeing the 'machinery dealers' prices - 2x fleabay for an identical machine plus a gallon of tractor enamel, I wanna pull my hair out!
    That leaves CL, where you could go nuts keeping a 24-hour watch so's not to miss out on THE deal
    Last edited by shaggy; 10-16-2020 at 03:53 PM.

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    Update: Following a glowing report on the machine from Bill (310 Guy) this morning, I sent the seller a holding deposit, and am driving down to pick up the lathe on Monday.

    More news and pics in a few days.
    Last edited by shaggy; 10-18-2020 at 10:29 AM.

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    Listing seems to have been removed so congratulations are in order?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ACHiPo View Post
    Listing seems to have been removed so congratulations are in order?
    Yep, technically it's mine though there's still loading up and a long road trip ahead.
    Maybe save the congrats for when I get it home safe and sound!

    Here's a few close-ups Bill took for me when he went to look at it:

    lathe-1.jpglathe-2.jpglathe-4.jpglathe-5.jpglathe-6.jpg

    He said the machine runs super quiet, and that gear changes click into place nicely. That was a nice surprise, and I think way better than anyone here expected, to go by the ebay listing.

    Will keep you posted!
    Last edited by shaggy; 10-19-2020 at 12:53 AM.

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    Update:
    After serious consideration, and to be honest, a couple of sleepless nights, I decided to pass on this machine. Sorry to disappoint all who shared my enthusiasm.

    I think it could be the basis for a fantastic lathe, but given the relatively high price (in filthy condition, no less) for a 'bare' lathe with almost no tooling worth having, it would have been a money pit for me.

    While there were other reasons, mainly to do with a severe lack of work space in my shop, the above probably answers the OP title with a resounding 'no', for me.

    So, it's back to looking and waiting ...and counting my blessings

    Thanks to everyone - especially Bill (310 Guy) - for the help, and feedback!

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    Well that was a quick turnaround, hope you find what you are looking for.

    Psst, its only money, and you can't take it with you

    Psst again, if you need motivation to clean out the garage, park a lathe outside the door, with rain in the forecast

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    Once you have a sweet lathe you will soon forget the money spent on it. If you buy a crap lathe you will be pissed off every time you have to use it....

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    Quote Originally Posted by dalmatiangirl61 View Post
    Well that was a quick turnaround, hope you find what you are looking for.

    Psst, its only money, and you can't take it with you

    Psst again, if you need motivation to clean out the garage, park a lathe outside the door, with rain in the forecast
    I will, thanks. Still feeling a bit deflated, as the adrenaline wears off, but had to make a choice. Reality can really suck.

    Actually... you can't take *anything* with you when you go Bummer!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob F. View Post
    Once you have a sweet lathe you will soon forget the money spent on it. If you buy a crap lathe you will be pissed off every time you have to use it....
    Or you can know what you're looking for AND get lucky. I paid $500 for this one several years ago, came with everything but the kitchen sink

    p1180614002.jpg

    BTW, where the heck is the original tooling for all these used lathes on fleabay? Steady rests, taper attachments, faceplates, etc?
    It's sad that so few of them still have all their original equipment.
    Last edited by shaggy; 10-20-2020 at 10:12 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Montana View Post
    RUN, there are better deals and sellers out there...Phil
    Phil -- Where??


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