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SAG 14 for sale, seeking opinions

The dude demoing the machine seems to have a pretty hard time selecting spindle speeds. I don't know how easy it is supposed to be to dial up a speed on a Graziano, but it seems sketchy in the video. Lost motion in the shifting forks?

Regards.

Mike
 
Thanks Mike. Yes, I've read of that issue with these. A 50-year old machine, w/ the possibility/likelihood of ways or spindle bearing, or other wear, or gear damage, should probably ring warning bells.
As usual, it boils down to a question of, wait around for a machine more local, or gamble the 800-plus mile round trip drive for a look-see. But, pricewise, with all that hardware, possibly worth it? Old machines always being somewhat of a gamble.
 
Pretty hard for anyone to say based on a video. ;) Gear selection seems pretty typical Graziano....or a lot of lathes for that matter.....somewhat vague. Wouldn't worry too much there. Cringe a bit with that spindle still spinning change though, that will round a tooth nose or two, if done frequently!

Don't know values there, but that's probably around the sum (or a bit more) in local pesos you'd pay at auction for one here, if they aren't clapped out. On the other hand a friend sold his pristine 14 for around $800 on retirement, with taper attachment, both steadies, chucks, faceplates, etc, minus collet closer, which aren't in common use here. With a few million from the factory sale and need to move, he wasn't very worried about a few thousand more on an old lathe and the aggravation of dealing with gumtree or ebay types.
 
I have a SAG14 so I can say that what you see in the video concerning gear selection is typical. Many times I have to rotate the chuck by hand a little to engage the gear I want. No big deal, it's just how they work. And as you can see in that video, you don't want to be changing gears while the spindle is still turning. That machine actually sounds very good, but you can't really tell much about condition of the ways or other mechanical features without inspecting it in person. Mine is a 40" and I believe the one in the video is a 60" and it seems to be well tooled. I traveled about 500 miles one way to look at mine when I bought it and I think it was worth the trip. I really like the lathe.

Ted
 
The gear change looks normal - it is an excellent system (invented by a genius I reckon) and I am unaware of any problems.

I would say the lathe is worth a look. It is a later model Sag 14.

I don't think much of the chucks, that would lower the price in my opinion.

The face plate would have originally been around 480mm (19"). That one looks small.
The four jaw would have been around 310mm (12"). That one is small.
I have a 310mm/12" three jaw on mine, perhaps a bit large for a D1-5", but I like it.

I can't see the travelling steady.

Collets for the collet chuck?

Plenty of toolholders?

Check that the tailstock morse taper is OK (not scored).

The ways are hard and should be OK, but I can't see them.

Check if the way lube pump is working, sometimes they fill up with coolant, and it might also show you if it has been regularly used.

The lathe is suspiciously clean, like it might have been pressure washed and then sprayed with WD40. Bad for a machine. Hopefully they cleaned it more carefully.

I think it is well worth looking at, but I don't think much of the 3 and 4 jaw chucks, which means $$$. They might be fine for your work though.
 
Guys, thanks for the feedback and suggestions. Gives me a few things to think about in case I make a move.

Peter, now I think about it, that 4-jaw did look a bit 'generic'. Not that it's a complete show-stopper for me. Thing is, space is a major issue so now I'm thinking a SAG 12, or a 14 with the 40" bed (as I think someone mentioned here) would suit me better. I was looking at a shorty LS Okuma, but it's too far away and $$$ a bit high.

There's a Mori Seiki MS-1050 only 10 miles from me, and that's another option, though it's also considerably more $$$.

Any thoughts on Graziano vs Mori Seiki manual machines, btw?

Thanks everyone for the tips. Now at least I know I'm on the right track.
 
Last edited:
Agree the demonstrator should not be changing pitch and feed settings while the spindle is still turning and the spindle rpm selector is just the way it is... needs to slip into its new setting fully. Whats the hurry anyway ? One thing to look carefully for is the spindle arbor sleeve.
The taper in the nose is esoteric to the Graz and adapts to #4 Morse. Mine came w/o and with the help of some of the PM members on this post I made one from drawings they provided. Great lathe, you wont regret it.
 
Chuck Kiegh said:
Agree the demonstrator should not be changing pitch and feed settings while the spindle is still turning and the spindle rpm selector is just the way it is... needs to slip into its new setting fully. Whats the hurry anyway ? One thing to look carefully for is the spindle arbor sleeve.
The taper in the nose is esoteric to the Graz and adapts to #4 Morse. Mine came w/o and with the help of some of the PM members on this post I made one from drawings they provided. Great lathe, you wont regret it.
Click to expand...

Thanks Chuck. It's advertised and shown with a Hardinge 5C collet closer in the spindle. Does that mean it would have to have the proprietary taper adaptor fitted?
 
With all that with it it seems to be a good package, if you have room for it.
Is the weight really only 3500 lbs? That seems light compared to american iron of similar size.

Text from the youtube:

SWING OVER BED: 16"
SWING IN REMOVEABLE GAP: 22"
SWING OVER CROSS SLIDE: 9-1/2”
DISTANCE BETWEEN CENTERS: 60"
HOLE THRU SPINDLE: -5/8”
SPINDLE SPEED RANGE (12): 36 - 1200 RPM
LONGITUDINAL FEED RANGE: 0016" - .0248" IPR
CROSS FEED RANGE ARE HALF OF LONGITUDINAL SETTING
THREADING RANGE ENGLISH: 4 - 60 TPI
THREADING RANGE METRIC: 0.5 - 7.5 mm
TAILSTOCK SPINDLE TRAVEL: 5-1/2”
TAILSTOCK SPINDLE TAPER: #4 MT
APPROX DIMENSIONS: 112"L x 36"W x 50"H
APPROXIMATE WEIGHT: 3,500 LBS.

EQUIPPED WITH:
DRO
3-JAW CHUCK
4-Jaw CHUCK
6-Jaw CHUCK
HARDINGE 5C Collet Nose
FACEPLATE
TAILSTOCK
STEADY REST
THREAD DIAL INDICATOR
REMOVEABLE CHIP PAN
MISC TOOL HOLDERS AND DRILL CHUCKS
5 HORSE POWER MAIN MOTOR
MANUALS

INSPECT UNDER POWER IN OUR Huntington Beach, CA Warehouse.
 
Where are people seeing chucks in that video? Does appear to be something a bit odd, under the scale on the outboard end of the saddle.

shaggy said:
Any thoughts on Graziano vs Mori Seiki manual machines, btw?
Click to expand...

The usual condition, condition, condition applies. Likely the Mori will be older than the Graziano, if what I see here is the same situation there.

Mori will be heavier even in a shorter bed, will have a brake and probably easier for support over there if there's any issues. Mate's 14 here was 1800 or 1500 rpm from memory, rather than 1200, which the Mori will have standard and would be handy if doing much small work.

The lathe behind the Graz, that looks around Sag12 centre height....and about the length you were chasing too!
 
I've used my Sag 14 for 40 years and have owned it for the past 11. I've always loved this machine particularly the clutch start and reverse. It is noisier than our newer Acra/Morton Chinese lathes but many Graziano features are improvements over these newer machines. And despite what you may think watching the video, shifting gears is actually easier than many newer machines with more conventional shiftng handles.

FWIW it looks like the Grazianos have retained much of their value. I think mine new in 1969 was about $2500CDN.
 
BillE said:
Where are people seeing chucks in that video? Does appear to be something a bit odd, under the scale on the outboard end of the saddle.



The usual condition, condition, condition applies. Likely the Mori will be older than the Graziano, if what I see here is the same situation there.

Mori will be heavier even in a shorter bed, will have a brake and probably easier for support over there if there's any issues. Mate's 14 here was 1800 or 1500 rpm from memory, rather than 1200, which the Mori will have standard and would be handy if doing much small work.

The lathe behind the Graz, that looks around Sag12 centre height....and about the length you were chasing too!
Click to expand...

Accompanying tooling is listed in the fleabay ad: Grazino Sag 14 Lathe with DRO, TOOLING AND WORKHOLDING PACKAGE REF#FAB228 | eBay

I think there is a SAG 12 on fleabay at the moment, it looks a bit rough to me tho'. Don't think it's from this seller. A SAG 14 w/ 40" bed would be great. As you say condition is everything and you often can't tell from pics. So maybe I should cool off and wait for one to turn up closer.

--thanks!
 
Rob: "With all that with it it seems to be a good package, if you have room for it.
Is the weight really only 3500 lbs? That seems light compared to american iron of similar size."

3500 lbs is enough for me, thanks! :) I was surprised when I realized a medium-sized engine lathe can approach the weight of a big horizontal mill :(
 
shaggy said:
Accompanying tooling is listed in the fleabay ad: Grazino Sag 14 Lathe with DRO, TOOLING AND WORKHOLDING PACKAGE REF#FAB228 | eBay

I think there is a SAG 12 on fleabay at the moment, it looks a bit rough to me tho'. Don't think it's from this seller. A SAG 14 w/ 40" bed would be great. As you say condition is everything and you often can't tell from pics. So maybe I should cool off and wait for one to turn up closer.

--thanks!
Click to expand...

God, more Grazianos than you can poke a stick at, from a repaint refurb, to part-outs.

See from the ad, it is 1500 rpm on the handwheel! :rolleyes5: The 12 looks dirty, an honest machine perhaps, but again, impossible to tell....then the electrickery parts to worry about. HGR has the size you're chasing, but that would be a big punt no doubt, plus the shipping.

The spindle sleeve to take a centre, wouldn't expect it to stay in place. I see the standpipe is there, minus the end, but if there was any coolant use, you might be in for a lovely time on extraction.
 
Yep, a SAG 14 with the short bed is what I really want. That particular one ain't it (not checked out, no accessories to speak of, and way TF too far away), but it got me drooling pretty good :D
 
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