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Shipping lathe from Germany from auction ?

  • Thread starter D. Thomas
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D. Thomas

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There is a lathe of interest to me, about Hardinge HLV-H size, up for auction in Germany soon and just wondering if any of you guys have ever attemped to pull this off, shipping to the US. I've bought machines from Europe before, but it was always a dealer situation. Seems like with an auction situation it might be a nightmare of cost and complexity seeing as how you'd need to contract for rigging and crating...and possibly shipping to the crating house, etc. But on the offhand chance, anyone knows any tricks in this regard, I'm posting...
 
Finally found one of you dreams Don ?
Let me guess.... A Schaublin 150 ?
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If it was that I wouldn't be sitting here typing, I'd be on the next flight
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And what about two SCHAUBLIN 135 ?
I've seen them one month ago in Paris at my favorite dealers warehouse...
I've already asked him for the price of one of these babies in the past, and it was around 5/6000 $...
 
I used Fed-ex to send a 1600 lb shipment of tools from Paris to the center of the US....send it "space advailable" and airport to airport for the best rates. Also I had them fill out all the papers and labels here in the states and overnighted them to the creater in Paris.........this turned out to be worth thousands as they then lost these (two creates of machines) for a week and when they found them they sent them overnight at no charge due to their error.......I used air for the simple reason...the less time a shipper has my stuff the less time they have to damage it...
 
T, there was a Schaubin 135 for sale in the US about 3 years ago...in Miami, Fl of all the odd places. I was unaware at the time just how rare it was and by the time I decided to make an offer it was already sold. Another Deckel afficianado in CA has it tucked away in his basement shop !
 
Basements in California? There are probably on 50 of them in the state! (slight exageration, but still frustratingly few of 'em).

Thanks Tien for the FedEx hint... I've never thought of that. I have discovered that often air is cheaper (or the same) than by sea though. One way or the other, however, it is still usually too expensive to justify.

Alan
 
Well, Sean, that pretty well sums it up then. It seems like you just can't get a good feeling for the price until you have the exact specifics and then get bids. This is definitely not for the faint of heart! There is some nice stuff over here (well, over *there* but I'm *here* for another week or so... want to get back *real* bad... Hotter than Hades over here, muggy, and no friggin air conditioning!).

--Alan
 
Well, having shipped 20+ tons from Germany to the USA, I'll tell ya...

Basically machines lay in an uncomfortable spot. It becomes a matter of weight/volume/value.

They are large/heavy enough to require special handling, yet usually not valuable enough for their weight to ship (sometimes they are). Keep in mind that you may get lucky, and you may not, so error on the side of safety in your shipping formula that it may cost a lot more time, hassle, effort..etc., than you expected. Keep in mind that the machine will be handled by people who may not know the best ways to protect it, and then it will go over bumpy roads for a couple days and sit on salt water for over a month...and that's if you are there overseeing...if not...worse.

If you are thinking about making a profit...be really careful...
Figure 4000 pounds of one machine vs 4000 pounds of boring heads... the tooling is more valuable (and durable) per pound by far.

On the other hand, shipping a single tooling item doesn't always make sense unless you really must have it.

Really to make this simple, if you are getting the right deal on the right machine...ask yourself if it is worth it time and expense-wise for you to get on a plan and spend a week overseas nursing it to the boat. It can be, and my opinion is that you should only go ahead if it actually is, and that this is the best way to do it.

"Not for the faint of heart" is exactly right. This is not something best undertaken by those who think they are gonna paypal and UPS their way through overseas transactions and shipping of larger items.


Sean
 
FWIW, I agree with Sean on the tooling thing. Out of 4 items I've shipped from Germany, 3 were damaged in transit. The Germans make some beautiful machine tools, but they can't pack worth a friggin ^&#@!#$, if you ask me! To make matters worse, the insurance on my beautiful Centricator wasn't worth a crap either! The USPS sent a nice letter back saying that due to international treaty, they couldn't honor my claim. Why? Because when they asked the Deutsch BundaPost (or whatever the post system is called) they never got a response, and USPS won't pay out if the foreign entity doesn't respond. How convenient! So everyone is pointing fingers at one another and I'm left holding a damaged item that *was* insured. I was/am not a happy camper about that! But, at least I've got a Deckel taper for a Centricator III. That means I need only find an orphaned C-III for another machine and I'll be set; therefore, not everything is a total loss. The point is, shipping is pretty damned expensive and frustrating. Had I not a job that has taken me to Germany about 2 to 3 times a year, I'd not buy *anything* over here! Way too much of a PITA. And truthfully, even with a job that takes me here, I'm still not sure it is always worth the hassle. That said, I do get something that is sort of fun... A story! When I look at a few of the pieces I've brought back, I get a smile on my face, thinking of the trials and tribulations I went through to get the bugger home!
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--Alan
 
One hint on international shipping with insurance..... use a carrier that has offices in both countries...... ie Fed-ex or DHL (which is German owned I think).... when you use the post office.... their responsibility starts only when the package gets in their hands in the US..... any problem.... "of course it was that way when they got it and they're not responsible" etc. etc..... with a private company.... they picked it up... put it on their plane.... took it off their plane.... and brought it to you...... if there is a problem... THEY did it and there is no one else to blame.... then it is just a matter of the fine print in their insurance....
 
Alan, back in 1988 I brought home from the UK about 20 pounds of Herbert turret lathe tool holders (cast aluminum) in my suitcase !

Guess that wouldn't go over too well today...
 
Last year I put about 20 pounds of Holtzapfel lathe cutter bits and "D" drills up to 1" in my checked baggage...... you should have seen the strange looks I got from the security girls at Heathrow..... it helps to have paperwork that says what the stuff is (i.e. tools... not weapon parts)..... anyway had no problems so it can still be done... just NOT in your carry-on.
 
Sometimes you can catch a ride....

Occasionally a UniMOG will ship from Bremen. If you can put the parts in the Radio Box, it is almost a free trip. Lots of similiar piggyback things.

Not too many years ago, it was $2000 for a container to LA, and $30 to offload. Seems that there would be folks you could catch rides with that way, but from Ger. as well....

--jr
 
FYI...

On a trip to Houston, we passed by a company in South Dallas that was crushing cars, and any other metal thing... and stuffing the result in containers. You know they were catching a ride back to CHina. 57,000#+ capacity and that is rarely used...

--jr
 
I was thinking about this at one time also. With the price that the German machinery is bringing, why not fill a 20' container and bring it over here. A few mills and a few lathes will fill it. I know its an investment in machine buying, could you make it worth while?

Tom
 
Re machines in container, what will keep them from turning over and getting rusty with ocean air ? No problem with new, as they are export crated and cosomolined anyway but with used seems like some very expensive crating needed.
 
Back in the sixties & early seventies before Britain joined the Common Market & before prices in Britain went through the roof, several machinery dealers in Canada were buying used machine tools cheaply in Britain, and shipping them to Canada by container. Other than the fact that I knew it was happening, I never knew the logistics of it all. To give an indication of prices in Britain in 1971, a pint of bitter at any neighborhood pub was nine new pence, less than 25 cents U.S. Just get a container loaded with your favorite German millers or Swiss lathes and make your fortune in the U.S.
 
The moderator of the Deckel group did pretty much what you are saying, Tom, but only for accessories. I suspect it worked out OK for him, but not all that great. Stuff in Germany isn't cheap... espectially the machines. In fact, I'd hasten to say that the machines are probably *more* expensive over in Germany than the US. Oddly the accessories seem to be a little more reasonable, but buying/shipping in small quantities is a royal PITA. I've had poor luck with it, and am not prepared to do the massive purchase and resell type of operation.

I'm sitting in Heidelberg right now trying to figure out how to return about 250 pounds of stuff. Hmmm, I don't think United Airlines will let me hand-carry that much and they have a 2 bag limit! Crap! Fortunately people from my company fly back and forth all the time, so I'm hoping I can use up that second bag on several flights, using colleagues. What is the technical term in that illicit trade? Mule, I believe!
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Of course, that means I have to break the items down to 40 pound units or so... Not always fun.

Anyhow, the larger items are pretty expensive here. Plus, there is always the issue of them being metric which may or may not be a problem for you. As a general rule, however, I think that trying to sell a metric machine in the US is *not* as desireable as selling an inch one. So it becomes a double whammy, triple really... price, shipping, deflated value of metric.

--Alan

[This message has been edited by wrench (edited 08-13-2004).]
 








 
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