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Thread: VDF Boehringer

  1. #1
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    Hello,

    I am new to this forum, I found it while searching for information about a Weiler Condor. Nice to see that old german machinery takes interest even in the USA or Australia. I have to say that I am German, living in Hamburg, the town where VDF Heidenreich & Harbeck produced lathes.
    And I would like to contibute with some pictures of my VDF Boehringer, which I bought in 2004:






    This is a Sauter hydraulic tracer unit mounted:





    Machine was in very good condition when I got it, I did some repaint and got new wipers and the speed label new from Boehringer. And I had to convert it from 500V operation (German industry voltage) to 400V (standard 3-phase line here), as the machine was working in a toolromm at Beyer Leverkusen, the well-known chemical company. I had to mount two new motors.

    The speed range is up to 2240 rpm, which is a lot for a lathe of this size, I think. It was made in 1976.

    The machine does NOT have a machine type plate, and I could not find holes where one could have been mounted. According to Boehringer it is a D480. But I found a similar one on ebay called D48 S. Any hints?

    Peter

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    Hi, Peter,
    what a nice lathe indeed, does it has a seperate electric motor to feed the carriage? tell us more about the specification of this lathe [img]smile.gif[/img]
    cheers,
    alpha1

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    Hi alpha1,

    the small electric motor is the "Eilgang", don't know the english word for it, it is for moving the feeds with high speed. Just for mooving to a new position, not for cutting with. ( I have to learn all this machine specific english terms now, please help!)

    It has a maximum turning diameter of 485mm, and a distance between centers of 1000mm.
    Chuck is a Forkardt with 250mm dia.
    80 metric and 114 inch theads selectable, You have only to change gears for module pitch.
    Tailstock MK5.
    Spindle bore is 62mm.
    Motor power is 11kW.
    Multifix Size B with some toolholders.

    I like how smooth all controls are operating. Allmost everything get its oil automatic. The changeable gears for threading are running in oil also, not grease as on many other machines. Even the cross slide gets oil from a pump integrated in the apron.

    -Peter

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    P x P,
    you are a traitor and should be shot. Getting a Swabian product instead of one from Wiesendamm 30! I can only assume that you are not really from Hamboich, nech!

    What is the complete serial number, at the end of the bed, between the saddle and tail stock V-ways, after the (GBG) circle.
    No promises but maybe I can close in on the date a little.

    If your machine was built before Gildemeister bought HHH, at least the engagement levers at the feed box and the apron, the "windowed" speed shifter and the compound rest were built am Wiesendamm.

    The next thing you must replace at your earliest convenience is the Sauter and replace it with the best hydraulic tracer ever, the Hydrokop, built by, who else, VDF!

    Eilgang is "rapid traverse".

    I am a little puzzled with the electrics. 3-phase in Germany used to be 380 V, is that now 400V nominally?
    You say it was 500V, why would Bayer AG use that voltage? Did they get the machine back from a plant in Great Britain or the US where the 440V now often is 480V. Maybe even 550V which means that it was running in Canada.
    Tschüss,
    Arno

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    Hello Arno,

    You seem to be a great Heidenreich & Harbeck fan! Did You work for them ?

    I am a real Hamburger, born in this nice city. And I drive Wiesendamm at least once a week, the buildings of HHH are still there, but the name was removed from the buildings some years ago. There seems to be a special machine building company now.

    I was never lucky enought to run across a HHH lathe in very good condition, all that I could buy were very used machines from production use. And there is one thing of the GBG I prefer over the HHH: The design of the handwheels. Another reason was to still be able to get spare parts. But the parts service from Boehringer is slow. Took over a week to get a quote, and two more weeks to get the parts. Weiler did this in one day for me.

    The machine number is 1925 5954 06. Should be end of 1975 or beginning of 1976, according to shematics. I do not have a manual or parts list, only the electrical drawings.

    And for the 400V/500V: You are right, 3-phase line voltage in Germany was 380V, 220V for one phase to N. To bring this to a common standard in Europe, where the UK used 240V/415V, the EU "harmonized" the line voltage to 230V/400V for all Europe. Germany goes 4.5% up, and England goes 4.5% down.

    But my machine was made for 500V "Industriestrom", used by some larger plants, I think to lower the current and save on wireing. May be historical related, but You can sometimes find 500V-machines here, for example welding machines. The wireing diagram contains all changes that were made to make it run on 500V, for example there is a note in this list that shows the serial number of the removed 380V motor and the number of the 500V one. And there is a writing "Kunde: Bayer" above each page.

    And replace the "Sauter" ? I was very proud getting one in like-new condition. [img]smile.gif[/img] I found it on ebay, had to pick it up in a little village near Göppingen. And, what a surprise, all mounting parts were made for the Boehringer! I had nothing to change. The previous owner bought it many years ago, and used it only once or twice.
    I did not even know that VDF made a hydraulic tracer. But I will keep eyes open for one ! Do You have a picture of one? How to distiguish it from a Sauter?

    And now I did some work with the machine, fantastic. Had to cut-off some CrMo steel 60mm strong, without any problems, rock-solid machine. I had an east-Germany lathe (WMW) before, You can't compare the two.

    -Peter

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    "3-phase in Germany used to be 380 V, is that now 400V nominally?"

    EU "harmonization" has resulted in 230 as the standard.

    220 countries have to change to 230.

    240 countries have to change to 230.

    Three-phase was 380 (220 single), 400 (230 single) and 415 (240 single).

    Now, three-phase is 400 (230 single), everywhere.

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    Hello P²,
    yeah, 8462, made my apprenticeship there.
    Last time I drove by it in September Makino's logo was on the old Apprentice Dept building, http://tinyurl.com/az9tt
    Makino "bought" HHH from Gildemeister to use as a "familiar name" European beach head.

    I must agree with you about the cross feed hand wheel.

    Did you know that most of the design staff joined Weiler after the Gildemeister take over. That's when Weiler started to design the Commodor.

    VDF built a heavier tracer than Sauter and Duplometric but did not push it for competitor's machines although in my first year with the Canadian importer I installed two on 26" swing Niles (East German) lathes.

    The smallest tracer is seen here on a HHH 21R0 which, just like your GBG D48S, is a House Line, and not a VDF product,

    [Click on thumbprint and (+) magnifier to enlarge.]


    It will take quite some time to see if I can find out more on that serial number.

    Cheers,
    Arno

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    Hello Arno and all,

    I got an old VDF catalog today, I assume it to be pre-WW2 because Franz Braun, Zerbst is included. May be from 1934, there is a printed mark on some pages.

    It includes descriptions for all "VDF" lathes from E1 and V1 to E8 and V6, Z8 to Z12 and E9 to E18. 112 pages, some color drawings.







    Did not know the Weiler Commodor up to now, but it looks much like a HHH or Boehringer. Especially the spindle speed selector.

    And if I had found a Heidenreich&Harbeck 21R0 in a condition near that on Your picture, I would have bought it for sure. Interesting that the VDF members made their own lines of machines parallel to producing the "VDF Einheitsdrehbank". I tried to find a more complete descrition of the product lines (post-WW2) of VDF and members, nothing on the web. Not even a detailed history. Arno's postings in this forum are the best information about this manufacturer I could get!

    Peter

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    Hey Peter,
    what a great find. Not too many people realize that Braun AG in Zerbst used the build the smallest ones.

    Also, it is sometimes very difficult to explain to non Germans that VDF was just the engineering / design / marketing organization and that particularly HHH on their larger ones and GBG on with their smallest models were fierce competitors in the domestic market.

    Because the Boehringer people supplied most of the service staff for Canada and the US their products are prominently represented over here.

    That is why you see oodles of D42 rather than 21R0's but you see virtually no S500 with their far superior surface finish when surfacing because of the selective flat belt drive.
    Weiler, although technically different had that as standard on their Matador and Condor.

    Some of the info found elsewhere in this list comes from "Protokoll der VDF-Sitzung in Frankfurt am Main 16.1.64"
    Cheers,
    Arno

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    Hello Arno,

    maybe You can help me to identify the different Boehringers of the seventies? I am not sure if mine is called D480 or D48S. And I have seen very similar, if not identical machines from Boehringer called DA420, 42D, D480S, or S480. Is there any way to easily identfy a machine? Any explanation of the types? I did not find useful information with google.

    Peter

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    Peter, don't know much about Boehringer's manual machines after the 42/44/48 D/S.
    When I left I was with a dealer selling ROMI which the was in a completely different snack bracket.

    My contact said he thinks he may be able to find out more about the serial number of your machine but he will not ask questions until he happens to be at the office anyway. Maybe he can tell me more about the other models too.

    Funny as it is, the VDF importer, Upton, Bradeen & James was bought by Boehringer and is now called UBJ Boehringer and since the Fall is the Canadian ROMI agent.
    Arno


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