Webb/Whacheon WL-435 Lathe
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  1. #1
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    Default Webb/Whacheon WL-435 Lathe

    Iím getting a Webb/Whacheon WL-435 17gx40 gap bed lathe that needs some work and I have some questions and Iím looking for any and all documentation I can get, preferably PDFs.
    Itís a 17Ē swing (24Ē in gap), A1-6 mount spindle nose, 5HP.

    Spindle runs smooth, bedways look good.
    The issue I have is the forward/back lever and rod could use some work to make it easier to engage and more positive. It works, just not as smoothly as Iíd like.
    Iím going to have to take the apron off anyways to replace the carriage/longitudinal pinion gear.

    Anybody have suggestions on fixing up the forward/off/backward lever and switches?

    Anybody convert theirs to run off a VFD?

    Itís an A1-6 mount spindle nose, which seems to be a lot less common than D1-6 (which I prefer).
    It has a 3 jaw, but Iíd love to find a 4 jaw independent and a 5C setup for it.

    I donít suppose itís easy to swap out the A1-6 spindle mount for a D1-6...








    A1-6 3 jaw:
    Last edited by rpseguin; 06-05-2019 at 01:43 AM.

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    Cannot answer most of your questions, but have a Yam lathe with A1-5 spindle so I can give some pointers on finding a chuck. If you search ebay for A1-6 chuck you will find some new/used, probably with a steep price, yet if you just search ebay by lathe chuck, and know what to look for, you might find one at a much lower price, because a lot of sellers cannot be bothered with figuring out what they have and will most likely list it as "plain back" chuck.

    Good luck! I recently found a NOS 8" 4 jaw Kitagawa at a sweet price.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpseguin View Post
    ...It’s an A1-6 mount spindle nose, which seems to be a lot less common than D1-6 (which I prefer).
    A1 spindle nose is actually MORE common than D1. probably 40 years and counting off the back of "DIN" equivalent, Asian lathes, and CNC spindles in general - anywhere the "workholding" device is less-often changed, if even ever changed at all.

    Look for backplates + plain-back chucks, especially those meant to be bolted through the FRONT onto the backplate. Most 4-J that's easy, but 2-J, 3-J, 6-J "scroll" you need to be more careful as to selection. Attach bolts have to avoid the inner works. Take note where your existing 3-J's bolt are situated, for example.

    That severely limits which used chucks you can use, tilts one toward investing in NEW chucks that are already set-up for A1-6, etc.

    More than two sets of the best attaching bolts you can put by also recommended if switching often is in your plan.

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    Default Webb/Whacheon WL-435 Lathe

    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    A1 spindle nose is actually MORE common than D1. probably 40 years and counting off the back of "DIN" equivalent, Asian lathes, and CNC spindles in general - anywhere the "workholding" device is less-often changed, if even ever changed at all.
    Thanks for the response.
    Thatís interesting.
    I prefer D type mounting.

    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Look for backplates + plain-back chucks, especially those meant to be bolted through the FRONT onto the backplate. Most 4-J that's easy, but 2-J, 3-J, 6-J "scroll" you need to be more careful as to selection. Attach bolts have to avoid the inner works. Take note where your existing 3-J's bolt are situated, for example.

    That severely limits which used chucks you can use, tilts one toward investing in NEW chucks that are already set-up for A1-6, etc.

    More than two sets of the best attaching bolts you can put by also recommended if switching often is in your plan.
    The A mount bolt interference and the fact that D mount studs donít interfere and also provide automatic alignment and that the studs let the spindle nose hold the chuck for you make me prefer D type mounting, even though I admit I donít have much experience using A type mounting.

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    Iím also looking for any and all documentation I can get, preferably PDFs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpseguin View Post
    Thanks for the response.
    Thatís interesting.
    I prefer D type mounting.



    The A mount bolt interference and the fact that D mount studs donít interfere and also provide automatic alignment and that the studs let the spindle nose hold the chuck for you make me prefer D type mounting, even though I admit I donít have much experience using A type mounting.
    Same shoes, different shoelaces.

    - Both use the "American Standard short taper" for alignment. Same taper shape. Same sizes, even.

    - D1(x) needs more meat and overhang at spindle nose to accommodate pull-up cams and provide depth for the camlock pins they act on to "be somewhere".

    - A1(x) saves that meat, cost of pins and cams, and reduces overhang by using ignorant bolts to do the draw-up. "Makers" like simplicity and per-unit cost savings, so A-series (or DIN equivalent) lives back of more nose-art than many folk even lay eyeball on.

    Using the same taper as they do, both "should have" exactly the same precision as to repeating position, one change to the next.

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    Nothing wrong with an "A" mount. I drive a Whacheon daily with one. Get yourself a 15" length of 6"x6" wood, cut the shape of the ways on one side, then slide it against the chuck and mark it along the chuck OD. Saw on the line and you have a nice saddle to set the chuck in, it lines right up and makes the bolts dead easy. WTF is the green stuff all over it? Thermite, is it really you???? Welcome back!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by moonlight machine View Post
    Nothing wrong with an "A" mount. I drive a Whacheon daily with one. Get yourself a 15" length of 6"x6" wood, cut the shape of the ways on one side, then slide it against the chuck and mark it along the chuck OD. Saw on the line and you have a nice saddle to set the chuck in, it lines right up and makes the bolts dead easy. WTF is the green stuff all over it?
    Thanks! Good to hear that A mount works well for you. How often do you swap chucks?
    Any suggestions on collet adapters/chucks/closers? I have a collection of 5C collets and a machine to use them with already, but open to larger capacity collet setups like 16C, 2J or 3J, but don't want to spend a fortune on buying new collets.

    Yeah, I've made chuck saddles in the past to protect the ways and help with heavy chucks, but never to help with alignment much necessarily.

    Green stuff?
    The pictures have a greenish tint from the green skylights.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Same shoes, different shoelaces.

    - Both use the "American Standard short taper" for alignment. Same taper shape. Same sizes, even.

    - D1(x) needs more meat and overhang at spindle nose to accommodate pull-up cams and provide depth for the camlock pins they act on to "be somewhere".

    - A1(x) saves that meat, cost of pins and cams, and reduces overhang by using ignorant bolts to do the draw-up. "Makers" like simplicity and per-unit cost savings, so A-series (or DIN equivalent) lives back of more nose-art than many folk even lay eyeball on.

    Using the same taper as they do, both "should have" exactly the same precision as to repeating position, one change to the next.
    Thanks!
    Yeah, I knew they were both 7 degree (7 deg 7' 30") short nose taper.
    From looking at the drawings, it looks like you could actually have a chuck that could be both A and D compatible.

    As I look at this:
    http://www.usshoptools.com/new_web_2.../101060_21.pdf

    It shows that A1-6 should have 2 bolt circles, one inside the 7 degree taper at 3.25" diameter circle and one outside at 5.25" diameter circle and that D1-6 has the studs at 5.25" diameter.
    So, you could have a chuck with the inner bolt circle holes for A mount attachment and have studs at the D circle diameter.

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    It seems like I should be looking for A2-6 chucks since they only have the larger diameter bolt circle, and A1-6 has both that circle and the smaller diameter circle.
    When given the option of bolting on a larger diameter, thatís what seems better

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpseguin View Post
    It seems like I should be looking for A2-6 chucks since they only have the larger diameter bolt circle, and A1-6 has both that circle and the smaller diameter circle.
    When given the option of bolting on a larger diameter, that’s what seems better
    For 4-J, "independent", surely. They have right about twice the grip of same-size 2, 3, 6-jaw "scroll" operated chucks, and it tends to get USED if not also abused.

    For scroll-operated nose-art, you may need the inner circle OR the outer - depending on size - so attach bolts avoid the scroll plate, etc.

    W/R nose closer collets - the key-crankers (5C) and spanner operated (ERXX, TGXXX, ++) systems are good value for money and precise enough, but SLOW operating for any production-run work.

    I lucked into a couple of D1-3 Sjogrens, used in 2J and a goodly set of Rubberflex as well, but neither of those are "fast".

    Speediest collets for me are the Hardinge 2J nose-mount "loop" closer and the all-metal Burnerd Multi-

    One "needs" 5C for universal, cheap and cheerful - hex, square, internal expanders, step and pot at low cost.

    Otherwise, a 2J is far the better system, all around on small/light-medium lathes, even at the higher per-collet costs as they grip better and also LAST longer than 5C.

    2CW

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    Machine moved without incident and now in my garage.


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    I need to get an push ball oiler nipple to replace a missing one on the cross slide.



    Iím not sure if itís a press fit or not.
    Hereís another one nearby on the same lathe.



    Iíd like to find PDF manuals and parts lists if I can.

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    Default Webb/Whacheon WL-435 Lathe

    Iíd guess it would be a press fit( I put a bunch in my Namsun by tapping them in with a small ball-pein and a 1/4Ē socket that was close to the OD of the Oiler)-they go in pretty easily, the side wall of the Oiler is really thin, Iíd take the cross slide off and squirt some fresh oil thru there- is that the Oiler for the nut?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

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    MIght be a good idea to delve a little deeper into the ball oiler problem than just clean the socket and put in a new one. The oiler has been gone a while and chips have had a chance to work their way in.

    BTW, McMaster has ball oilers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ripperj View Post
    I’d guess it would be a press fit( I put a bunch in my Namsun by tapping them in with a small ball-pein and a 1/4” socket that was close to the OD of the Oiler)-they go in pretty easily, the side wall of the Oiler is really thin, I’d take the cross slide off and squirt some fresh oil thru there- is that the Oiler for the nut?
    Not positive if it is for the nut or not, but that seems like about the right spot.
    I have to take off the apron anyhow in order to put in a new carriage pinion gear, so this will be on the way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by neilho View Post
    MIght be a good idea to delve a little deeper into the ball oiler problem than just clean the socket and put in a new one. The oiler has been gone a while and chips have had a chance to work their way in.

    BTW, McMaster has ball oilers.

    Roger that!

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    The other thing I'm curious about is how people have mounted their DROs on their Webbs, Mori Seikis, Yam, ...
    I'd like to mount the Z scale on the front size, under the apron and the X on the front of the cross slide.

    Eventually, I'm going to build a block mount for the toolpost to stand in for the compound.

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    Does anybody have an [extra] speeds/feeds/threading chart/plate for a Whacheon WL-435?
    Or, can you take/post a nice hires picture of one please?
    Mine doesn't have that plate on it for some reason.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpseguin View Post
    I'd like to mount the Z scale on the front size, under the apron and the X on the front of the cross slide.
    Both go against common practice.

    - Apron side is a busy area. Very. Difficult to find good space for mounting and traverse. Back sides of lathes are usually less cluttered - even with a TA.

    - HS side of the cross is subject to greater risk of impact, coolant and chip erosion, dropped "stuff" - even crush interferences than TS side. MY lathes - even though different "races" - mount follow-rests & c. off HS-side features of their cross that would interfere (true of TS side as well, many lathes...)

    2CW

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