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Weiler LZ330

7farmer7

Plastic
Joined
Feb 11, 2012
Location
Idaho, USA
Hello again.

Just got in from another summer of raising Wheat, Garbonzo's Peas etc. And am ready to go back to work fixing my Weiler. Noticed when I first ran it that it seemed fairly noisy. Isolated the motor and it runs quiet, head stock seems smooth also. It appears noise is generated in the intermediate gearbox. It has never been apart, seems tight and is full of fresh oil but still sounds like the bearings are dry.... smooth though. Was wondering if these gearboxes are generally noisy or if mine has a problem. CalG was kind enough to tell me how to operate it but I am a little worried about how it sounds.
 
Hi

I think I am right in saying the LZ330 has the same pre select gearbox as the Matador.
My Matador gearbox is very quiet and cannot be heard over the general spindle, motor and belt noise.
The nice thing about a Weiler lathe, even running at 3500RPM they are very quiet due to a simple drive train.

These gearboxes can be a bit fiddly changing ratios and sometimes there is a bit of crunching involved, I wonder if a gear wheel has been damaged due to the previous owner changing speed whilst it was running.

Good luck if you intend to strip the gearbox down, they are reasonably complicated and require blind bearing pullers to disassemble. However it’s easy to take the cover off and see if any gear wheels have been damaged, the hardest thing is lifting the gearbox out of the lathe to have a look because they are very heavy.

Cheers Adrian.
 
Our condor (same drive system) is pretty darn noisy. No clunking or anything bad - just a high gear whine. I figure the machine has seen a LOT of use and the intermediate box has a 3000 rpm input - so it will be noisy once the gears are somewhat worn.
 
It is my experience that the bearings right behind both pullys are the week point They get the load of the belts
If you replace those the problem probably will be solved
These are somewhat special bearings as they have a groove in the outer race to accept a seeger ring
Also without a special puller you have to take apart the whole thing
But with these pullers you can pull the bearing out of the bore and off the shaft simultaniously
I have those so for me its just a 2 hour job to replace those bearings Even have the bearings in stock

As you are at it also replace the oil seal

skf.JPG

Peter from Holland
 
Hi

I think I am right in saying the LZ330 has the same pre select gearbox as the Matador.
My Matador gearbox is very quiet and cannot be heard over the general spindle, motor and belt noise.
The nice thing about a Weiler lathe, even running at 3500RPM they are very quiet due to a simple drive train.

These gearboxes can be a bit fiddly changing ratios and sometimes there is a bit of crunching involved, I wonder if a gear wheel has been damaged due to the previous owner changing speed whilst it was running.

Good luck if you intend to strip the gearbox down, they are reasonably complicated and require blind bearing pullers to disassemble. However it’s easy to take the cover off and see if any gear wheels have been damaged, the hardest thing is lifting the gearbox out of the lathe to have a look because they are very heavy.

Cheers Adrian.

Thanks Adrian. That is just what I wanted to hear... and also just what I did not want to hear. When I purchased this lathe I was hoping it would be a quiet running machine. When I turned it on it startled me because it really is quite noisy. I've run quite a few lathes and they all seem to have a sweet spot where they run pretty quiet but I just could not find a speed where this lathe would quiet down. When you spin the input shaft on the gearbox it rumbles like dry bearings so it most likely has problems.... dang.

Thanks again for the reply I know where I have to head next. Had the ways re ground and they did a beautiful job but had to take off 15 thou to get all the wear out so its seen plenty of use in its life. Has been a fun project so far and my old monarch still runs good so I can make chips while I resurrect this Weiler.
 
It is my experience that the bearings right behind both pullys are the week point They get the load of the belts
If you replace those the problem probably will be solved
These are somewhat special bearings as they have a groove in the outer race to accept a seeger ring
Also without a special puller you have to take apart the whole thing
But with these pullers you can pull the bearing out of the bore and off the shaft simultaniously
I have those so for me its just a 2 hour job to replace those bearings Even have the bearings in stock

As you are at it also replace the oil seal

View attachment 121187

Peter from Holland

Hey Peter that is just what it sounds like. When we spin a combine shaft and it sounds like that we change the bearings. I had no Idea you could still find parts for this gearbox. I will see if I can get to the bearings this weekend and will most likely be in touch!
 
Sounds like it’s the bearings as Peter has suggested, probably caused by very little or no oil in the box.
It may be a good idea to change all four bearings if you want a hassle free peace of mind.

The gearbox is not made by Weiler so the bearing type and construction are not listed in the manual, however they will be stamped with the type number.

Enclosed are a couple of photos with the gearbox end plates removed so you see what’s involved. With a blind puller these bearings can be removed without stripping the box.

Cheers Adrian.
 

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I forgot to mention
Also look at the spring that indicates the positions where you can change speeds (see arrow in picture)
if not strong enough its hard to feel if the knob is in the right position to change gears
I drilled the hole a tad bigger to get in a stronger spring

The first 2 gearboxes i did I changed all the gears But only the 2 behind the pulleys were bad
Now I only replace the 4 on the outside which I can retract with that puller

Peter from holland

gearbox weiler.jpg
 
Hello again.

Just got in from another summer of raising Wheat, Garbonzo's Peas etc. And am ready to go back to work fixing my Weiler. Noticed when I first ran it that it seemed fairly noisy. Isolated the motor and it runs quiet, head stock seems smooth also. It appears noise is generated in the intermediate gearbox. It has never been apart, seems tight and is full of fresh oil but still sounds like the bearings are dry.... smooth though. Was wondering if these gearboxes are generally noisy or if mine has a problem. CalG was kind enough to tell me how to operate it but I am a little worried about how it sounds.

The LZ330 I have had a loose fitting input pully. A coustom key and some "liquid metal" took care of that clatter. The box still isn't quiet, but it's not noisy either. Better than a clattery vari-drive.
 
018.jpg
Hey Peter that is just what it sounds like. When we spin a combine shaft and it sounds like that we change the bearings. I had no Idea you could still find parts for this gearbox. I will see if I can get to the bearings this weekend and will most likely be in touch!

Hello again Peter. I removed the gearbox from the Lathe again and am pretty certain that it is the bearings that are making the noise, especially the bearing on the shaft that goes to the spindle. This gearbox has never been apart (Will try to attach a picture) I feel I am capable of repairing it but am reluctant to tear it apart if I will not be able to find the bearings etc. to fix it. Does this gearbox have gaskets or o ring seals on the cover plates that would need to be replaced when it goes back together? Do you have bearings and parts or would I need to go to Weiler. (have tried this route already with limited success) This has turned out to be quite a project. I had to buy the lathe without getting to see it first which I know is always a risk but there are just no machines available in this area. Am not sure what this lathe was doing for most of its life but the tailstock is very smooth with little wear, the crosslide and compound are also in very good condition with very little backlash and minimal visual wear...but the bed...dang..there was an area about 12" from the chuck that was worn enough you could hook your fingernail on the ledge. Tried everything I could to get it to run true but the bed was good by the tailstock and when it got to the worn area it was like falling off of a cliff. Have worked my whole life with worn out ways and just wanted one that was straight so I had the ways reground and am on my way back together. Everything is going to fit up nicely except the saddle which will need to be built up and re scraped. I'm not sure I will be the best man for that job but I am going to try. Was not really wanting to work on this gearbox but I guess I'm going to have to try so any info you have would be helpful.

Thanks Garry021.jpg021.jpg
 
Hello Adrian, I am still trying to figure this forum thing out. Did not see your post till just now and I tried to send a reply to Peter but actually think I replied to myself....sheesh. Thanks for the pictures. Was there some sort of seal under that cover plate? Are these bearings available here in the states if I can find the type number? I sent some pictures with my post to myself so I hope you all can see that too and maybe Peter will see it and know where I can get the bearings.
 
7farmer7
There is some gasket sealant on the endplates
The bearings are standart bearings The suffix N indicates it has a groove and NR is a groove including the snapring


Peter from holland
 
The gearbox should be referenced back to the maker. Ortlinghaus is a going concern. Weiler won't be much help.

At least that is what the Weiler service literature indicates. Reading from page ET-23/2

"Complete disassembly of the unit by unqualified persons may result in the loss of proper gear shifting. For proper service, we suggest returning the entire unit to the factory".

Ortlinghaus. Introduction to Ortlinghaus
 
AFAIK Ortlinghaus does not support these gearboxes anymore
These arn`t that complicated
As I disassemled some and got back to proper shifting I may call myself "qualified" then

Peter from holland
 
Thanks to everyone for the responses to my questions. I feel comfortable with where to go next and will try to let you know how it works out. I am sure I will have more questions as I get further into this project. Wish I knew enough to actually answer a question but am not there yet. I will say though that these Weiler lathes are very well put together if anyone is looking at one. I have run South Bend, Leblond, Monarch, Takisawa, Mori Seiki and they were all fine machines. This Weiler ranks right up there with the best for all around build quality....that's my 2 cents worth of knowledge.
 
My comment was intended to express the attitude of Weiler as stated in their literatu

AFAIK Ortlinghaus does not support these gearboxes anymore
These arn`t that complicated
As I disassemled some and got back to proper shifting I may call myself "qualified" then

Peter from holland

We are smarter than that! All of us together ;-)
 
Well I got the end caps off and...wow...rust & water sludge. I guess I am glad I looked but it is going to be a bigger project than I thought. Where do those blind bearing pullers, or I should say how do they attach to the bearing to pull.? I was going to try to build one but was not sure how to sneak something through there that would grab that bearing. Couldn't quite tell from your picture. Or would I just be better off to tear the whole darn thing apart?
 
With these bearings you can remove the snapring
Then make 2 half bushings with a part that hookes in the groove for the snapring and a snapring groove at the top
Then place a fitting bushing over the 2 halves to lock the 2 halves in place
Then a piece of round under the snapring with a threaded hole in the middle and you have your puller
Still follow it

Peter from holland
 








 
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