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    According to the research by J&M and Kaiser you...

    According to the research by J&M and Kaiser you have to set the pull stud torque in proportion to the draw bar force.

    Tool holders don't set specific drawbar force on a machine.
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    With the J&M pullstuds / retention knobs you have...

    With the J&M pullstuds / retention knobs you have to know the draw bar force so you can set the correct torque for the pull stud.


    Seems part of the drawbar force (in very broad strokes)...
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    Absolutely / for sure , I think most people get...

    Absolutely / for sure , I think most people get that or I would hope they would...

    BBT 30 ≠ Cat 40

    But has several advantages depending on what you are trying to do / need. Obviously with all...
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    For sure, just going on the premise BBT means you...

    For sure, just going on the premise BBT means you can push the machine harder "American style" almost without issue.

    I can't find anything that tells you the range of drawbar forces for BBT vs...
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    Ok "Face Wash" (not air blast) + BBT interface is...

    Ok "Face Wash" (not air blast) + BBT interface is a lot more rigid / dimensionally more stable system .
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    You mentioned BBT option BUT one is encouraged...

    You mentioned BBT option BUT one is encouraged buy the air blast (if I have that right) additional $4000.00 to make sure that chips don't accumulate at the contacting surface so that the BBT tool...
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    Ahhhh , so you are saying they use the cutting...

    Ahhhh , so you are saying they use the cutting load cell jigs to warranty their spindles ?

    Is that what you mean, I did have a sense I didn't catch your drift properly lol (sorry)
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    I agree very reminiscent. I think that is very...

    I agree very reminiscent.

    I think that is very valid mechanism but frankly didn't want to touch that one as that is more specific to Brother's approach to absolute elimination of parasitic time......
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    Yup pretty much and that's in part what the...

    Yup pretty much and that's in part what the "Fancy" pull studs aim to eliminate.

    But a pullstud that might be too hard throughout under Micky_D's working environment and methods would have failed...
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    I can dig up the references, make diagrams and...

    I can dig up the references, make diagrams and throw up other ones. (Time willing).

    where I'm coming from on this IS I don't believe that if you put a too brittle pull stud in a tensile tester...
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    That's awesome ! I don't think enough MTBs do...

    That's awesome !

    I don't think enough MTBs do that (some do and some don't but typically not to that degree).

    That brings confidence to the product.

    I have to admit I am very conservative...
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    Indeed BTW I doooo actually pay attention to...

    Indeed BTW I doooo actually pay attention to everything you have written on the subject and previous threads , verbatim.

    I was in two minds to say "Brother inc." OR Yamazen specifically given that...
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    Occasionally they have a customer that trashes...

    Occasionally they have a customer that trashes waaaay more spindles than their other customers, so they dig in to find if high level big outfits are calculating tool bending moments properly.

    Big...
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    It's good that Brother has these old school steel...

    It's good that Brother has these old school steel lattice windows and no one gets killed in these situations, and Mickey_D is out of pocket but … No one died.

    Like Milland I am still curious as...
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    I see what you mean... Get where you are coming...

    I see what you mean... Get where you are coming from

    But I think IF the pull stud is brittle and it's essentially jammed in with the fingers/ balls and you have side load and bending moment...
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    Cool that you were in Portsmouth doing that …...

    Cool that you were in Portsmouth doing that … Kinda rings some bells for me (in a good way) .

    Over the years I have had to devise all kinds of experiments and test procedures for relating...
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    That's exactly what I would expect. There IS a...

    That's exactly what I would expect.

    There IS a significant difference compositionally between the cheap pull studs and the expensive ones.

    + the other methods such as J&M type that don't...
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    That's funny you beat me to it by 30 seconds … ...

    That's funny you beat me to it by 30 seconds …

    Ditto "Flexing"

    + materials

    _________________________________________________________________________________


    I think with the back of...
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    Cheap knobs vs. expensive "Knobs" + various distortions

    Quality Retention Knobs Are Vital For Safety And Performance

    ^^^^ Haimer explains the difference in materials and form and types of heat treat and what can happen here cheap versus high quality...
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    Hold my beer...

    Hold my beer...
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    I gotta admit that's pretty amazing value for...

    I gotta admit that's pretty amazing value for money right there.
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    Nahhh (to you maybe) :-) That's not the point...

    Nahhh (to you maybe) :-)

    That's not the point here,

    269575

    vs.

    regular BT 30 taper...
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    That's exactly what's on my mind, later on today...

    That's exactly what's on my mind, later on today I'm gonna try educate myself better on different standard spindle designs 'cuz I suspect with higher performance machines (more HP more torque...
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    Thanks for posting that link to the "I killed my...

    Thanks for posting that link to the "I killed my spindle thread" ~ good thread / good read, read that last night post for post.

    Frank Mari does have a lot of interesting things to say in that...
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    US8998545B2 - Retention knob for tool holder ...

    US8998545B2 - Retention knob for tool holder
    - Google Patents

    You can download the PDF for the patent here...

    I've read about this specific type of action that these pull studs have...
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