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  1. #81
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    In 8 posts, he's only had 2 or 3 links I think.
    So he's only a 40% spammer at best.

    If'n y'all notice him posting elsewhere that is spammy - be sure to ping me as I can always reach him through this post.
    If you click the "report to mod" on another board - I will not see it, and likely the notice will fall on blind eyes, so - if it is on another board, "ping me".
    But please, not all of you plugging up my PM box at once eh?


    Also note - that I hate to ban someone that is new to the site in error, and maybe new to boards as well, and likely found us via a search for something - which very well would pull up an old thread. So - in that case, a newbie topping an old thread is to sorta be expected, so I want to be cautious and not trample a greenie like a Who concert. (obviously I made it out alive, but...)



    ------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by kustomizer View Post
    Last summer was our first in our new shop and we were not insulated until late in the season. I have been wondering if I could sool the shop with the river running by, I have permission to pull water from the river to irrigate with and I don't imagine there would be much objection if the irrigation water went through a big radiator in the shop on its way to the grass. I will look into the water temp, it was too cool to sit in on hot days last year but I never thought to measure it. Does anyone here cool their shop with a river?
    Yes, cool with the river. Heat pump and even return the water to the river. I think your coils need to be around 55F but depends on river temp. Warmer river? More volume. Other issue is the temp needed to pull moisture from shop air. Huge volumes of air from 70F coils may not dry the air out so much. But sinking heat pump to river water may be a real good idea.

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  4. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    I think some people had a different image in their head...including me...
    Fallingwater - Frank Lloyd Wright - Tour the house today - Pennsylvania
    I saw a lot of pics of the restoration. Cool stuff with that river sliding door over the stairs. But at a certain age we do not want the sound of running water at night when we are asleep. Wake up mid stream if you know what I mean.

  5. #84
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    Interesting idea using the river to cool. There is a type of heat pump that is made to do this. It is called an open loop heat pump. It kind of falls into the "ground source" group of heat pumps as the hardware is basically the same, but instead of pumping a water/antifreeze solution through a loop of tubing buried underground, you either use a body of water (lake, river) or a drilled well. The water is sucked in, goes through the heat pump to either heat or cool and then back to the source (pumped into the ground in the case of a well, or possibly surface discharged).

    Your idea of doing it directly for cooling only may work depending on the temp and how big of a radiator you get (or multiple ones). If you want to do this, it is going to be a custom one-off for sure, so you will have to do some research. If you look into hydraulic fluid coolers (start with Surplus Center for example) you can dig into the engineering specs to figure out how much water at what temp will give you what BTUs for a given radiator. It is going to take some effort in researching it but would be worth it to at least get you in the ballpark before you start buying stuff. Would be an interesting project, but it will take time.

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  7. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scruffy887 View Post
    I saw a lot of pics of the restoration. Cool stuff with that river sliding door over the stairs. But at a certain age we do not want the sound of running water at night when we are asleep. Wake up mid stream if you know what I mean.
    Yes, but you can always put some conveniently placed holes in the floors
    (like behind each machine)....D

  8. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by dstig View Post
    Interesting idea using the river to cool. There is a type of heat pump that is made to do this. It is called an open loop heat pump. It kind of falls into the "ground source" group of heat pumps as the hardware is basically the same, but instead of pumping a water/antifreeze solution through a loop of tubing buried underground, you either use a body of water (lake, river) or a drilled well. The water is sucked in, goes through the heat pump to either heat or cool and then back to the source (pumped into the ground in the case of a well, or possibly surface discharged).

    Your idea of doing it directly for cooling only may work depending on the temp and how big of a radiator you get (or multiple ones). If you want to do this, it is going to be a custom one-off for sure, so you will have to do some research. If you look into hydraulic fluid coolers (start with Surplus Center for example) you can dig into the engineering specs to figure out how much water at what temp will give you what BTUs for a given radiator. It is going to take some effort in researching it but would be worth it to at least get you in the ballpark before you start buying stuff. Would be an interesting project, but it will take time.
    I agree, research will be my friend here, I am not sure how much cooling I will actually need So I will have to start there I recon. Last year we only had a few hot days which I understand as being the norm here so the first thing I plan to do is put an attic vent fan up high on the wall as well as one in the attic. The one in the attic will run on a thermostat only and the one high on the wall will have a thermostat as well as a timer to start it around 2am until perhaps 8 am just to cool off the thermal mass some as it does cool off to the 50's even on the hot days I imagine as a direct result of the river. I don't remember the shop getting much over 80 on those hot days last year and I didn't have a way to cool it off at night as I was afraid to leave the doors open at night as squatters are a big problem here( mice). My computer tells me the water temp in mid August is in the 50's.

    We have the type of heat pump you mentioned that circulates water from our well to heat and cool our home. I will record temps of the inside of the building as well as the river this year as I look into water to air heat exchangers

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    If you have any water in that creek in august.....

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    It was about 18-24 inches deep, 20 feet wide and moving pretty fast last fall, the local paper told us all our river levels were low at the time, there is a lot of water here. About that time we had a ditch dug to run a water line to the small shop to feed our tumblers, we had to go about 4 feet deep to make a connection at the base of the nearest hydrant. While I was in the ditch making the connection the guy on the excavator was bailing as fast as he could with a 2 foot bucket so I could see what I was doing. Most folks doing basic irrigation here dig a hole 10 feet deem or so away from the high water line and drop in a 4 foot culvert on end, back fill the outside and poof they have an ag well

  11. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by kustomizer View Post
    Last summer was our first in our new shop and we were not insulated until late in the season. I have been wondering if I could sool the shop with the river running by, I have permission to pull water from the river to irrigate with and I don't imagine there would be much objection if the irrigation water went through a big radiator in the shop on its way to the grass. I will look into the water temp, it was too cool to sit in on hot days last year but I never thought to measure it. Does anyone here cool their shop with a river?
    No but that's a very cool idea and I have a creek running behind our house. Hmmm.

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  13. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldwrench View Post
    We keep the shop at 72°F all the time, 24/7, with no nightime drop. I don't care what it costs, it's worth it to be able to count on the machine accuracy. In cases where the op has to chase a dimension with a 5-digit mic we run a morning warmup cycle, but for anything else it's just make parts.

    I would AC the production floor before the management spaces if it came down to a choice. When interviewing candidates we tell them it's going to be 72° in here whether it's 105° outside or minus 15° outside. We don't work outside, and don't want it to feel like we do. That really resonates with people coming from other shops, especially those who are just burned out with oilfield machine work. I think it's a competitive advantage in hiring and advise everyone to do it.
    I spent over 30 years working in an auto parts plant that was air conditioned. A bunch of people transferred to another plant locally that wasn't air conditioned and regretted it. They thought our plant was going to close and the other one would be there forever. Fast forward a few decades and our plant is still running and the other one is a bare 40 acre lot.

    I air condition my shop and everything else. I've had enough humidity to last a lifetime.

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  15. #91
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    It sure is something to drive through Wixom and see that bare lot!
    Kind'a hard to git'cher bearings....


    -----------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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  17. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big B View Post
    No but that's a very cool idea and I have a creek running behind our house. Hmmm.
    A lot of BTU's are just flowing on by, if you learn something interesting on the subject let me know, it was sunny today and the snow is going away. I was out looking and I think I can pick up water at the upper end of my property and gravity feed it to the shop then out in the lower field to irrigate cow food.

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  19. #93
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    No - in this case there are not BTU's floating by.
    The BTU's are expected to be in your shop, and you want to send them floating away.

    By law - the way that it is written, apparently "cooling" an object is not possible.
    However - you can displace the heat from this source to that object.

    I'm just the messenger....


    --------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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  21. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post
    No - in this case there are not BTU's floating by.
    The BTU's are expected to be in your shop, and you want to send them floating away.

    By law - the way that it is written, apparently "cooling" an object is not possible.
    However - you can displace the heat from this source to that object.

    I'm just the messenger....


    --------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox
    I see, a gravity powered, river fed water heater. I have never heard of one but It may just work out that I build one. This could be just about as redneck as as air conditioning can get, given my track record I just may be the right guy for the job, Hey ya-all, hold my beer and watch this!
    images-1-.jpg

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  23. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post
    No - in this case there are not BTU's floating by.
    The BTU's are expected to be in your shop, and you want to send them floating away.

    By law - the way that it is written, apparently "cooling" an object is not possible.
    However - you can displace the heat from this source to that object.

    I'm just the messenger....


    --------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox
    Try chatting up some young pretty lady in front of your wife. See if that cools her down.

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  25. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post
    No - in this case there are not BTU's floating by.
    The BTU's are expected to be in your shop, and you want to send them floating away.

    By law - the way that it is written, apparently "cooling" an object is not possible.
    However - you can displace the heat from this source to that object.

    I'm just the messenger....


    --------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox
    "Anti BTU's" just like we learned about from Star Trek....

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  27. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scruffy887 View Post
    Try chatting up some young pretty lady in front of your wife. See if that cools her down.

    He'll be lucky to see anything for a week!

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  29. #98
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    Someone sent me something saying

    " the only thing stronger than a womans will is her won't"

  30. #99
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    A fella I apprenticed under was from the paper mills around Sunbury Canada, he told a story (several times) I really like his stories by the way.

    his dad channled a creek thru a shed which keep their stored food cold.
    Nother story that was good was fetchin the perch a rons to drag the moose home to eat after his dad slayed em.., on the stone boat.
    I have this portable ac unit,on wheels, that I hook what most call a garden hose to,cold water in,warm water out,and a chit ton of COLD air from the unit.
    Just sayin.
    Oh yeah, I am on my own well here,its deep.
    My shop an home are A/Ced normal like, I use this unit for the bays an sheds that arnt.

    I dont really approve of this post.
    Good luck
    Gw

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  32. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post
    It sure is something to drive through Wixom and see that bare lot!
    Kind'a hard to git'cher bearings....


    -----------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox
    I bought a couple dozen pair of coveralls at a auction that have "wixom plant" over the pocket (High quality ,made in the USA stuff) way long time ago, nowa days folks wanna buy em,ask about em,tell me their Gpa worked there. anyway,that lot aint empty nomoe Ox,got bought and filled up with places,eh?
    I wear these dam coveralls all cold season.
    Gw


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