Air Conditioning for Small Shop--Window Units vs Something Else - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by munruh View Post
    Wow! now that's a good price on that. Did you install that yourself? How do you feel it holds up to a shop atmosphere?
    Yes I installed it my self about 20 years ago.
    If you can solder copper water pipe and have a vacuum pump gages and watch a few you tube videos you can do it.The units come precharged.
    I haven't had a problem sense i installed it.
    You will have to change the air filter more often
    than a house .You will be surprised how much coolant the air filter will catch.

    Dont use a mii split they are cheaper to run
    but they are fussy due there high seer ratings
    the inverters go out a lot, offseting the savings for electricty. And you cant buy parts
    for them of the internet.

  2. #22
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    Keep in mind any and all electricity your equipment consumes will be converted into heat at some stage, and released into your shop. Each kW of power your equipment uses while running is ~3,400 BTU/hr of heat. So figuring out a way to get your equipment's heat out of the shop would go a long way to reducing your AC demand.

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    We had the Mitsu ductless in the last lab I was in and they were really slick. I saw the quote when it came through but can't for the life of me remember what it was. We had five of the wall-hangers and then the main control on the wall, with the pump/condenser outside.

    I'm strongly considering going this direction for my home shop. That VMC heats things up FAST, and it is costing me a fortune to heat in the winter so far with the small electric unit. I may run gas out there but we'll see.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanLocomo View Post
    Keep in mind any and all electricity your equipment consumes will be converted into heat at some stage, and released into your shop. Each kW of power your equipment uses while running is ~3,400 BTU/hr of heat. So figuring out a way to get your equipment's heat out of the shop would go a long way to reducing your AC demand.
    This ^^^^^ !!!!!

    Just to emphasize the point AmericanLocomo made:

    I have an old ass 5-ton AC unit hanging off the back wall of my shop. And, as everybody knows, it gets hotter than Satan's balls here.
    Right now at 11:15 it is about 105 outside. The AC is running full-tilt, and it is 86 in the shop. It will hit 90 in here before 4pm quitting time.
    Now, on weekends with no machines running, the AC will actually more than keep up. I set the T-stat to 74. It will keep it in the 70's on all but the hottest days.

    My next shop improvement project is to get the air-compressor (kaiser screw, huge heat maker!) and Phase-Perfect, out of the main shop space.

    Edit: I just climbed up and looked. The AC unit on my shop is 10tons, not 5. My bad. (and at least 30 years old)
    Last edited by wheelieking71; 06-11-2018 at 07:29 PM.

  5. #25
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    I retired a 12kbtu window-shaker (mounted through the wall) for a Fujitsu mini-split (Heat-pump) and I really like it. A single zone 15kbtu was about $3600 for a turn-key install (with a good warranty). I was really tempted by the "MR Cool DIY" units on Amazon - the prices look good, but not sure how you would get service.

  6. #26
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    Antique AC units and poor insulation are a great way to waste energy. Improvements have been huge in the last few years, mostly with mini-split systems.

    Maybe in places like Arizona a Earth to Air system would be more efficient than Air to Air?

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    Quote Originally Posted by SND View Post
    Antique AC units and poor insulation are a great way to waste energy. Improvements have been huge in the last few years, mostly with mini-split systems.

    Maybe in places like Arizona a Earth to Air system would be more efficient than Air to Air?
    Time to make like a groundhog eh ?

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    We have a 20 year old 5 ton cooling about 3000sf x 14 high steel building. It is a duct type but we never put any ducting on it, just a filter on one end and an adjustable vent on the other. It is 94 outside now and 68 inside. Lots of insulation and solar power
    Last edited by kustomizer; 06-21-2018 at 09:44 AM.

  10. #29
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    No information useful to the OP but....for 32 years I have worked here in La with no climate control..sweat balls off in summer and totally drained at the end of a day or freezing cant feel your toes in the winter.

    Moving right now into a 7500' shop fully climate controlled...the AC unit is the size of a truck.
    New owner strongly believes in comfort of his workers, believes the increased output from me not cooking in my shorts will pay for the electricity.

    If you could have seen my happy dance when I found out he closed on this building last week.

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  12. #30
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    I got a quote from a fellow here locally. He's known as one of the cheaper HVAC companies around and is really busy. He gave me three quotes between $5,400 and $6,500. That is for a 5 ton system with out heat. He told me he would have more in a mini split than this. How does that pricing sound? 40 x 60 shop with 14 ft walls.

  13. #31
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    I don't know Kansas. Here in WV, and the much of the east it is very damp- lots of moisture in the air. This moisture is half of what makes life uncomfortable and getting rid of it is a big part, about half I think, of the cost of air conditioning energy. When I built my shop i put plastic moisture barrier in the walls, ceiling, and floor. My shop is a 30x60 pole barn and I run a large dehumidifier, got from Walmart, nothing fancy. When it is 85-90 deg outside and dripping wet the shop feels like an oasis just from dehumidifying. I may add A/C in the future but for now it's good.

    My suggestion is to first look to see how well sealed things are. If Kansas is humid, see if you can put in some moisture barrier. Then see how the a/c does and add more if needed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by munruh View Post
    I got a quote from a fellow here locally. He's known as one of the cheaper HVAC companies around and is really busy. He gave me three quotes between $5,400 and $6,500. That is for a 5 ton system with out heat. He told me he would have more in a mini split than this. How does that pricing sound? 40 x 60 shop with 14 ft walls.
    Bad, put the unit in yourself
    Rheem/Ruud 5 ton 16 SEER A/C Split System RA166AJ1+RH1T624STANJA NEWEST!! | eBay

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    I might be re-thinking this AC thing.. Its getting a little toasty in here.


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  18. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronReb View Post
    No information useful to the OP but....for 32 years I have worked here in La with no climate control..sweat balls off in summer and totally drained at the end of a day or freezing cant feel your toes in the winter.
    And the CNC machines are running ok?

    I bought a 10k btu portable A/C unit recently and it wasn't doing much at all. I just moved into a slightly larger space and it does nothing.

    I've hit 107 in the shop a few times in the last couple weeks. Being my first summer in TX, I'm a little concerned, mostly for the VMC. I'm 98% water, so a big fan does pretty good, but the machine not so much. I built a contraption to use the portable A/C unit to cool the CNC electronics cabinet. Big plywood shroud.. works very well with temperature probe inside cabinet.

    My main issue with the portable unit, and I believe window units are the same, is that they net exhaust copious amount of hot, humid air. Blow it out the window all fine and good until you open the door and something has to come in to replace it. Down here it's 100+ degree air, so no wonder they aren't efficient at all.

    I've been looking at a mini split, but I think the space is too big for them. A/C dude I talked to today says money goes farther with a standard split. We talked about no ducts, just hanging the air handler from the wall. 5 ton is probably what my space needs, and it's half the OP's size.

    Blowing foam on the ceiling might help too. I'm planning to add that at some point. The roof probably gets to 150-160 down here.

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    20180624_150643.jpg

    Here's my contraption. Works great. Outside of the cabinet is cool to the touch, inside stays under 90. Stop gap until I get A/C in the shop.

    I bought a vortex cooler, but watching my pressure gauge fall steadily is a no go. I don't want to buy a separate 5hp compressor to run the stupid thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CosmosK View Post
    20180624_150643.jpg

    Here's my contraption. Works great. Outside of the cabinet is cool to the touch, inside stays under 90. Stop gap until I get A/C in the shop.

    I bought a vortex cooler, but watching my pressure gauge fall steadily is a no go. I don't want to buy a separate 5hp compressor to run the stupid thing.
    How is the humidity where you are? AC dries air but not necessarily completely so I was wondering if there have been any condensation problems for you to deal with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheOtherCami View Post
    How is the humidity where you are? AC dries air but not necessarily completely so I was wondering if there have been any condensation problems for you to deal with.
    Fairly low here most of the time. The A/C unit is just blowing on the outside of the electronics enclosure. I thought better of running with it open. The humidity in the cabinet seems to stay pretty low.

    I'll be curious how the OP makes out. The is my first Texas summer, so I'm by no means an expert on the subject.

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    I finally turned my ductless unit over to AC just a few days ago when it got to 74°F in there, I was starting to sweat...

    For under $2000 in the US you can buy a 24k-btu LG Gloss White unit and easily install it yourself. That model has a very strong fan, my 18k sure does, watch fan CFM for the indoor unit to circulate a large shop.
    You can also buy a little vac pump with all the gauges you need for like $120.
    They cost eff all to run, 1-2 $ day, way, way more efficient than any ducted central units.

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  24. #39
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    New cell site cooling systems are interesting.

    Denzo (if we recall correctly) Has a unit that looks like an a.c. unit but no compressor.

    It has condenser and evaporator with gas inside and big fans on both sides.

    Works well but must be kept clean.

    Ericsson 6100 cabinets.

    Others have small compressor a.c. units and others have heat exchangers.

    Samsung has a.c. on battery cabinet and a filtered fan system on main.

    For your equipment a heat exchanger is helpful depending on heat load.

    Solid state (think 12 volt cooler) are good for about 400 BTU and more can be added.

    Avoid just a fan and hole in cabinet as everything gets sucked in.

    Look as adding hepa filters to limit crud.

    If a control box generates a bunch of heat one could duct it outside like a dryer as it may be cheaper per btu.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by SND View Post
    I finally turned my ductless unit over to AC just a few days ago when it got to 74°F in there, I was starting to sweat...

    For under $2000 in the US you can buy a 24k-btu LG Gloss White unit and easily install it yourself. That model has a very strong fan, my 18k sure does, watch fan CFM for the indoor unit to circulate a large shop.
    You can also buy a little vac pump with all the gauges you need for like $120.
    They cost eff all to run, 1-2 $ day, way, way more efficient than any ducted central units.


    How big of area are you cooling with this?


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