Air Systems > Pressure

dstryr · Sep 1, 2021

Kaeser 30hp Variable Speed Compressor
Any benefit to running say 120 PSI into the tanks/storage and regulating the outward pressure to 110?
Versus just running 110 all the time?

EmGo · Sep 1, 2021

dstryr said:
Kaeser 30hp Variable Speed Compressor
Any benefit to running say 120 PSI into the tanks/storage and regulating the outward pressure to 110?
Versus just running 110 all the time?

If the storage is big enough, just going to waste money. If it's not big enough, then you get more reserve air.

dstryr · Sep 1, 2021

Running into an issue using our Heat Shrink blow offs for 10-20 minutes doing setups.
Yesterday the operator was able to draw the system pressure from 110 to 80 psi just using the shrink fit unit. The 30hp compressor I guess doesn't have enough CFM to recover. I have a second compressor plumbed in as a backup that alternates with this one every day that will turn on and help but just waste of electricity if there is a better way. I wasn't sure if more storage would help. I already have 2 240 gallon tanks + 1.5 Copper lines everywhere

Mark Rand · Sep 1, 2021

Does the shrink fit unit have any sort of eductor/flow amplifier or is it just using raw compressed air? it's possible that it's using a lot of expensive high pressure air for a job that would be better done with more low pressure air.

Just thinkin'

EmGo · Sep 1, 2021

How about this for a quick and dirty ? Plumb the backup presser to the heat shrink unit, add a line to the main air you can open or close in case you ever do need the backup, and let the heat shrinker build up and drop, build up and drop without messing up your main air system ?

That would mean the heat shrinker couldn't run constantly (or you could beef up just that area) but easier to deal with that than the whole system going splat.

(And yeah, look into why the shrinker is gobbling up so much air. Sounds like a lot.)

DDoug · Sep 1, 2021

EmanuelGoldstein said:
How about this for a quick and dirty ? Plumb the backup presser to the heat shrink unit, add a line to the main air you can open or close in case you ever do need the backup, and let the heat shrinker build up and drop, build up and drop without messing up your main air system ?

That would mean the heat shrinker couldn't run constantly (or you could beef up just that area) but easier to deal with that than the whole system going splat.

(And yeah, look into why the shrinker is gobbling up so much air. Sounds like a lot.)

Not a manual valve, use a pressure relief that you can plumb the exhaust into the rest of the shop (don't cobble on, they make them, I just can't recall the terminology)
That way the shrinker can't pull down the system, it only get's the one compressor, and any excess floats over the valve to the rest of the shop.

Garwood · Sep 1, 2021

I forget what they call them, but there are high volume low pressure centrifugal compressors used for stuff like this. They look like a turbocharger compressor section on the end of a motor. They make just a few PSI, but flow a shitload of air. Very expensive new, but they are cheap on the used/Ebay market.

Or just add another 100 gallon or so tank right next to the shrink machine and place an orifice between the shop air lines and the shrinker tank.

Maybe you could figure out the maximum frequency of shrink ops you can do with the air system you have and work within those parameters?

DDoug · Sep 1, 2021

Garwood said:
I forget what they call them, but there are high volume low pressure centrifugal compressors used for stuff like this. They look like a turbocharger compressor section on the end of a motor. They make just a few PSI, but flow a shitload of air. Very expensive new, but they are cheap on the used/Ebay market.

Or just add another 100 gallon or so tank right next to the shrink machine and place an orifice between the shop air lines and the shrinker tank.

Maybe you could figure out the maximum frequency of shrink ops you can do with the air system you have and work within those parameters?

There are "regenerative blowers":
Used Busch Blower | HGR Industrial Surplus

And then there are the multi stage blowers from Hoffman, Spencer, and others:
Used Spencer Spencer 2040-hmod Blower | HGR Industrial Surplus

Garwood · Sep 1, 2021

Your got it Doug- Regenerative blower, exactly what I couldn't think of.

Strostkovy · Sep 1, 2021

They're also called ring blowers. I use one for sand blasting breathing air.

We're going to plumb it better because it's so useful for blowing clothes off, blowing sand off of parts and out of corners, and separating dust from sand.

EmGo · Sep 1, 2021

Strostkovy said:
We're going to plumb it better because it's so useful for blowing clothes off ...

Unless you got the girl scouts working there, remind me not to come by your shop :eek:

DDoug · Sep 2, 2021

EmanuelGoldstein said:
Unless you got the girl scouts working there, remind me not to come by your shop

Like this:
HOME IMPROVEMENT -- Tim loses his shirt on Tool Time.wmv - YouTube

gwelo62 · Sep 2, 2021

Install a tank as suggested,but put a check valve on the tank inlet side. We had 120psi compressor for one machine. Went on a Pattons class by a bloke called Foss. He suggested it. Instantaneous demand was the problem. Fitted a tank and valve. 120psi compressor never used again!

gregormarwick · Sep 4, 2021

The lower the pressure the higher the volume of air delivered.

Our Kaeser was set at 8.5bar (~120psi) cutoff, 8bar cut-in, and we installed a new machine with a pretty severe spindle purge and the compressor couldn't keep up with air demand when everything was running together. I figured out the minimum pressure we actually needed to run everything and reduced it to 7 and 7.5 and it keeps up no problem.

dstryr · Sep 4, 2021

I dropped the system pressure down to 110 PSI and was able to get the auto start up on the second compressor to work more effectively. They are both 30 HP variable speed so Main is set to 110-5 and Second is set 105-5. Then every 24 hours they switch off. As long as the shop stays above 100 PSI it is fine. We have a lot of automation working and dropps in pressure really mess with all the confirmation signals that are set for specific ranges. I knew I should have went 40HP instead of 30.... lol.

Idaho power is about 1/3rd of what I used to pay so maybe cheaper / less hassle to just let the second compressor turn on a few times a day

BT Fabrication · Sep 7, 2021

is there a dedicated regulator on the shrink fit machine? you could drop the pressure only there and solve a few problems.

dstryr · Sep 10, 2021

We regulated down the shrink fit machines but then the cooling time went up 2x as long. Sitting around waiting for the 4 pockets defeated the purpose of buying the second machine.

EmGo · Sep 10, 2021

dstryr said:
We regulated down the shrink fit machines but then the cooling time went up 2x as long. Sitting around waiting for the 4 pockets defeated the purpose of buying the second machine.

Try refrigerated air on the shrink fitters ?

SD&amp;M · Sep 10, 2021

Just a WAG here, but EG's post above got me thinking: I wonder if using a vortex tube would be helpful here? (No first-hand experience with this unfortunately). I seem to recall some folks here using these for something-or-other....YMMV

Vortex tube - Wikipedia

Cheers, Brian

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