Any tips on purchasing material, tooling, etc.?

Hi, everyone. I’m new(er) to running a business. I have a Swiss type lathe. I’m just curious to as if anyone could give me tips on getting material, tools, consumables, etc.; how does everybody handle sales reps in terms of establishing relationships, getting the best deal, and all that?
When you are buying material is it just the general rule to buy in bulk to get the best price? Do you shop around and just make multiple calls to suppliers and say that so and so priced it at this? If so, how often do you do it to stay on top of it? Is there usually any negotiation involved? If yes... what points do you use?
I am just looking for some advice on how to be a better businessman in this industry.

My short and sweet advice:

Be honest at all times, be informed apart from just what the supplier tells you, treat your suppliers the way you want to be treated.

Over my years as a business owner/manager developed many long term working relationships with suppliers. I have also fired some suppliers. At the end of the day we are all trying to make a living and we need each other. I have had many a supplier go above and beyond for me when I need something in a hurry, but I always pay on time, and I don't beat them up on price or scream at them when mess ups happen.

I do price around regularly and let suppliers know when their prices are out of line, but I don't nickle and dime or cherry pick items from their quotes. If they can get me a lot price that suits me I go with it.

The suppliers and sales people that I don't tolerate are the ones who don't value my time (always calling or dropping in to get a detailed explanation of why they didn't get the last thing they quoted). Or the ones who promise the world but don't or can't deliver. Those ones typically get one polite but frank discussion about why that approach will not win business from me, and if the message gets ignored then those suppliers get fired.

Good suppliers are paramount to company success, be the customer that they want to help succeed, not the one that they merely tolerate.

Hope that helps.

Leviathan

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

Shop material around prices are all over the place. Pick the one or two you like and work with them, they’ll want to work with you.

Tooling is a little different. Price is important sure but service is critical. Our rep stay above aboard and if he knows his product doesn’t excel he tells us who’s does. The rep where we buy the bulk of our tools from knows the business and he doesn’t try to sell us snake oil. That’s the relationship you want. It’s easy to spot a hack from an honest Rep cause the hack will over sell where as the honest guy will say hello introduce himself and doesn’t overload you with information he just wants to start just that a working relationship.

Thanks for the advice guys. Yeah, when I said that I wanted to get the best price, I didn’t mean I wanted to beat people up. I suppose I should have asked how to get a fair price. Can I ask another question? Is there any site or resources where I can get a ballpark idea of what’s fair on material? I know there are places to see market price per pound and such... but I think I’m pretty sure that doesn’t apply to round bar. I really do appreciate your advice. I know you could just skip over my post and go to something more interesting.

Get three quotes. Do it via email and call them an Request for Quotation and say you intend purchase the following. (suggests its for purchase, that you're not dicking around, you're ready to buy. Don't dick around. Take the best. Don't negotiate further as it will just mean next time they'll game the quotes. Tell the ones the lost it why, and they you take the best quote without further negotiation.

No double people make a life's study of it, but you know nothing else you'll get a good start with that.

Never hurts to ask if there are price breaks at certain quantities. Especially if you have a couple materials you expect to use more than others. Try to project your needs over the next month, quarter, or six months on materials you expect to need for your production. Have your different available suppliers quote those needs and compare them. Pick the best ones and work with them. You can do much the same process with your tooling suppliers

Quality and quantity are the key

PrecisionCliff said:

Hi, everyone. I’m new(er) to running a business. I have a Swiss type lathe. I’m just curious to as if anyone could give me tips on getting material, tools, consumables, etc.; how does everybody handle sales reps in terms of establishing relationships, getting the best deal, and all that?
When you are buying material is it just the general rule to buy in bulk to get the best price? Do you shop around and just make multiple calls to suppliers and say that so and so priced it at this? If so, how often do you do it to stay on top of it? Is there usually any negotiation involved? If yes... what points do you use?
I am just looking for some advice on how to be a better businessman in this industry.

Click to expand...

In my experience, materials are a commodity and the price is based on the quantity of the current order and your volume of annual purchases. It does take time to develop these relationships but if you want the best price try to purchase from one or two suppliers. Do random quotes from others just to make sure you are getting good prices.
On the tooling issues quality is the only way to select the vendor. You need the best service and the best quality for your jobs. If you can't deliver a part on time to your customer because you tried to save a few bucks on a cutter but didn't receive it when needed. You will loose the customer and probably your business.
Good luck

Again.... thanks for the advice. I do appreciate it. Doug, that’s exactly what I mean. Yeah, it does limit it in most cases. I have self adjusting guidebushing... it’s a little more forgiving and am able to convert to “chucker” mode. That’s only good on short length parts though.

I’m not sure I agree with the not beating the sales guys up on price. We have gotten 20-30% reductions on consumable costs by being frank with our suppliers. At least in our area most brands only have a single distributor so if you know what you want it pays to play hardball over time.

As far as material goes we get at least two and hopefully three quotes. Whether it’s lead time or cost the variance can be so high as to make a job unprofitable. I am talking $750 vs $500 for the same order. Luckily for us the highest is also normally the slowest

Here's my strategy:

1. KNOW WHAT YOUR TIME IS WORTH. I'm self employed and if I can't save at least $1/minute (should be $2, but that's assuming I can ALWAYS earn my full rate, which I sometimes can't and $1 is just a simpler number). Use this to stop looking for a better deal on a $50 order. If you try to get it down to $45 and spend 10 minutes ($10) trying to do that, you've just wasted time (and therefore money!).

2. Online ordering is the #1 way to save time (and likely money). I order a lot of fixture parts on McMaster. Easy to filter & find, always good quality, seconds to place the order, fast-enough shipping. I have just found that "dinking around" on MSC or another site is just too much time and knowing the brand just isn't that important for my stuff. That trip to an industrial supply store will be time consuming. However, if you can establish an easy way to order with a local supplier, I do like supporting local brick & mortar.

3. For materials, the same thing usually applies. If I am ordering fixture parts, and my tool & die machinist needs so material (usually not a lot), I just place the order and have it all shipped to him (easy to do on McM, he's another ship to address that I can change with a click). He'll give me the fixture parts. If it's more, or I don't have parts to order, I'll go to Metals Supermarket but I have to do a phone call (their website sucks) but I have established a good relationship and sometimes they'll ship in their truck. So, MS is usually cheaper than McM, but I have to factor in MY TIME. IS IT WORTH IT to save $20? Hopefully you're dealing is much larger quantities, but the principles still apply. Find good local suppliers that don't suck up a lot of time to order and deliver reliably (so you don't have to waste time calling and ask where your order is). Also, make strategies. Is it really worth cutting your own material? Should you have parts pre-cut on a laser? Those are commodity services these days. When I need parts laser-cut, I almost never ask for a quote. My local guys are so fast and cheap!

4. Develop a replenishment system for tools so that you never run out of the highly-used items. The last thing you want is "inventory hell" where you have tools laying all over the shop. I don't do much myself, but I just tossed a bunch of misc drill bits and have two full fractional/number/letter indexes and when one wears out, there's a back-up and then I order the new back-up (i.e. I should always have two on-hand). My needs are small, you may need to expand that strategy.

Remember, time is money and there should be more valuable things you can do with it than trying to save a few bucks here and there! Also, the time spent replenishing things you are "out of" is usually worth less than than the time you are losing by not having it (i.e. not making parts!).

Good luck,
The Dude

I like it. Thanks for that advice. That’s a good way to think about it. My time is valuable. It’s just me for now. I don’t have any employees, except for myself. I’m just really getting my feet wet. You know, just trying figure things out as I go. Thanks... for introducing me to that perspective.

When it comes to material, don't forget delivery - transport, in my case over here it means i can also bill this out as business millage. Hence By using suppliers were i want to go i can not pay delivery and bill this out as a tax reduction at 45p a mile for the direct root to that supplier and back, detours at my expense obviously. Sure you need a truck with a rack that can do it, but it can really pay off far better than haggling over a few quid difference in price.

I will often go places and return with over half a kilometer - 1/4 ton of assorted ERW tubes on the landy. Also lets me ensure what im buying does not get rained on which matters greatly on plated final products.

Tooling, i buy exclusively online, don't think i have talked to anyone i buy from in person or on the phne for the last 4+ years now, often times i will work out - order late at night when i can't be doing much else. this is not the 1800's any more, you don't have to use reps or distributors unless you chose too. To a degree i don't have too many options there just is no one good within a 100 miles of here for actual cutters and its further than that if you want specialist stuff. Most suppliers give free shipping over x amount, so it kinda pays to have a rolling list of items to stock up on to bump the order value up for when you really need something.

camscan said:

Unless you are doing tight limit work you do not need ground stock.
The next time you buy a batch of material from a reliable stockist mic. it and you may well change your mind. We are also talking about a self adjusting guide bush.

Click to expand...

You guys are thinking of getting the self adjusting G/B? The real downside of it is the extra cost of the bushings and the longer bar remnants. It’s just me in the shop, so it’s worth that loss to me... so I can let it run lights out longer(or at least I think so).
Can I ask who is a reliable stocker? I do run tight tolerances, mostly under .001. I have the regular rotary housing and would like to switch over to it for the aforementioned downsides. I have heard that schmolz & bickenbach are pretty reliable, but I’ve just been scared take delivery and have a bad surprise.

PrecisionCliff said:

You guys are thinking of getting the self adjusting G/B? The real downside of it is the extra cost of the bushings and the longer bar remnants. It’s just me in the shop, so it’s worth that loss to me... so I can let it run lights out longer(or at least I think so).
Can I ask who is a reliable stocker? I do run tight tolerances, mostly under .001. I have the regular rotary housing and would like to switch over to it for the aforementioned downsides. I have heard that schmolz & bickenbach are pretty reliable, but I’ve just been scared take delivery and have a bad surprise.

Click to expand...

This probably warrants a new thread to keep this one more on topic, for the benefit of future readers looking for information.