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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by atomarc View Post
    You haven't had a raise in 4 years??????

    If that's true then I would guess there is nothing you can show your employer that will merit a raise. I hope the boss didn't show up with a new truck every year.

    Stuart
    I've worked for bosses who treated their employees like slaves and never gave raises, regardless of performance.

    I gave myself a raise: I got a professional degree and license and became self-employed.

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  3. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dualkit View Post
    If you get raises and they don't there has to be an obvious reason why.
    Because I'll play the game and take stupid risks where others won't. No wife nor kids makes a difference.

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    Iíve got 17 employees. I do reviews once a year in August with raises effective Sept 1. Once in a while an employee will say he is disappointed with his increase. I always ask him what he thinks he should be making and why. If he has some logical examples and justification I get back to him with an adjusted increase. If I donít change much it means I think heís good where heís at.

    Itís rare but sometimes an employee will ask for an increase midyear. Usually heís been talking to another employer or has friends he says are making x, y, or z. If heís good Iíll make an adjustment and try to keep him, if heís not that great I just let him go. I would never hold it against anyone. You are always free to ask.

    How the company is doing has nothing what so ever to do with pay. We could be losing money, thatís not their fault. I have to pay the going rate if I want good people.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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  6. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by adh2000 View Post
    I’ve got 17 employees. I do reviews once a year in August with raises effective Sept 1. Once in a while an employee will say he is disappointed with his increase. I always ask him what he thinks he should be making and why. If he has some logical examples and justification I get back to him with an adjusted increase. If I don’t change much it means I think he’s good where he’s at.

    It’s rare but sometimes an employee will ask for an increase midyear. Usually he’s been talking to another employer or has friends he says are making x, y, or z. If he’s good I’ll make an adjustment and try to keep him, if he’s not that great I just let him go. I would never hold it against anyone. You are always free to ask.

    How the company is doing has nothing what so ever to do with pay. We could be losing money, that’s not their fault. I have to pay the going rate if I want good people.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Awesome thank you for taking the time.

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    I don’t have a answer for you but I can tell you my experience.
    I spent many years as a worker bee- doing everything needed to get jobs done.
    I outworked any two other guys on the team, spent the nights and weekends pushing to get things done and managed every job I was on.
    I short I acted like I was the owner of the company and the buck stopped with me.

    I never really made any money with this plan.

    Eventually I just tired of it and started my own business.
    I do about the same as I did before- whatever is required to get the work done.

    I guess I would say if you want a life- nights and weekends your own just accept the going rate.
    If you are making the sacrifice like I was start your own business and decide what you want to pay yourself.

    I’ve been working like a dog lately.
    I pulled in 2k for working this weekend.
    It feels like enough money coming across the plate but just like when I was a worker bee I am working because the job needs to get done.
    It’s nice the work pays but the hook in me is meeting my responsibilities- getting a job done for the client.
    As a employee, if you have that ability to be fully responsible for jobs you might not get rewarded for that effort.

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  9. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    I don’t have a answer for you but I can tell you my experience.
    I spent many years as a worker bee- doing everything needed to get jobs done.
    I outworked any two other guys on the team, spent the nights and weekends pushing to get things done and managed every job I was on.
    I short I acted like I was the owner of the company and the buck stopped with me.

    I never really made any money with this plan.

    Eventually I just tired of it and started my own business.
    I do about the same as I did before- whatever is required to get the work done.

    I guess I would say if you want a life- nights and weekends your own just accept the going rate.
    If you are making the sacrifice like I was start your own business and decide what you want to pay yourself.

    I’ve been working like a dog lately.
    I pulled in 2k for working this weekend.
    It feels like enough money coming across the plate but just like when I was a worker bee I am working because the job needs to get done.
    It’s nice the work pays but the hook in me is meeting my responsibilities- getting a job done for the client.
    If you have that ability to be fully responsible for jobs you might not get rewarded for that effort.
    I learned a long time ago that doing the best for your boss and doing the best for you made no difference in your outcome. I do my best now just for my own edification. I don't have to impress anyone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dualkit View Post
    If you get raises and they don't there has to be an obvious reason why.
    I agree with that but I'll also say..the absolute very worst thing that can happen in the workplace is to share your wage/salary with a coworker or to have him share his with you..it will always cause hard feelings for one person or the other.

    The company I worked for posted all positions with accompanying pay rates on a board for all to see..no secrets. If you wanted more dough, you worked and trained until you were competent for the higher paying position. When there was an opening for that position...Bob's yer uncle!

    Stuart

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    I manage some 30 odd people. We are a small company. About 50 people. For our hourly people we have a tiered criteria. Moving up means moving to the next tier. I ask my guys to show me they are in the next tier and bump them up. If they are doing a lot of work outside of their role, I ask them to justify a raise. If they can do it, I bump them up.

    I agree that company profits have nothing to do with it. Prove you are worth the raise, and it should be given. If not, move on.

  12. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnworks View Post
    Because I'll play the game and take stupid risks where others won't. No wife nor kids makes a difference.
    Same back in the day except I did have a wife who earned a lot more than I did and was happy to support me. I returned to an employer at a much higher pay point on a couple occasions, the fellow workers weren't happy about my pay though. I pointed out all they had to do was quit, go elsewhere, broaden their experience, learn new stuff and then deal with the risk too. Surprisingly few wanted to do this.

    I like doing custom work these days. If I agree to do it, I do whatever it takes. If I don't like what's on offer, I don't start.

    PDW

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    Easy, go work for someone else or yourself.

    I'm simple every job I've had, I'll ask twice, if it doesn't happen, I'll move on..

    This is after jumping through every hoop that's set up.....eventually you get tired of that carrot and say " Adiůs "

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    Very small companies seem to have the best handle on who's worth a raise and who isn't. The owner is usually the day to day manager and sees who does what.

    Very large companies usually have some kind of formalized scale they stick to avoid dealing with individual pay issues. The "owner" is usually stockholders who don't have much to do with day to day operation and depend on an executive mgmt team who depends on input from middle mgrs who depend on input from shop floor mgrs. Shop floor mgrs usually have little say over pay raises. They avoid the pay issues by saying "don't blame me, blame the guys upstairs."

    Medium size companies are somewhere in between. Those are usually where politics, nepotisim, etc seems to make the biggest pay differences.

    All that said, usually the fastest way to increase salary is to move every few years. We had one employee leave for about five years, work a couple other places and came back making about 50% more than when he left.

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  16. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dualkit View Post
    If you get raises and they don't there has to be an obvious reason why.
    Quote Originally Posted by turnworks View Post
    Because I'll play the game and take stupid risks where others won't. No wife nor kids makes a difference.
    Does the old "Turn in two week notice without another job" trick work as well as it did over 30 years ago? I must of played that one a half dozen times 3 times at the same place.

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    After I sold my company in 2006 I took a job at a shop in Sanford Florida just setting up machines for production for $15 per hour. After about six months of busting my ass setting up machines for production I ask where my 90 day raise was they said I would get. I get the same ole "well money is a bit tight right now" yet they where getting new machines and driving new trucks. That night sitting at the bar with some buddies we had this great idea to have one of them call in the next day for a work reference on me.

    Well, I get called into the conference room after lunch only to find the two owners white as a ghost. They said "We were not aware you where looking for another job" My response was "My resume is online and I update it monthly. How did you find out?" Of course they told me that someone had called for a work reference. Anyway, I walked out of the room $5.00 an hour more (Still a joke wage for Orlando).

    Just remember, If you are a true machinist, (Not just a CNC jockey or cad cam guy that has to depend on the code coming out of the magic box) But a true machinist. Don't worry about being a job hopper for a while. There are shops hiring anywhere in the world you want to live. And with skilled machinist dwindling you can pretty much set your own terms and write your own check.

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  19. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by g-coder05 View Post
    After I sold my company in 2006 I took a job at a shop in Sanford Florida just setting up machines for production for $15 per hour.
    Is that the low rent district where pay is low or did you think you got a low starting wage because of your background? After being self employed I would rather die than go back working for someone and I think most self employed feel the same. Considering that I think most people would be leery of hiring someone who used to own their own shop.

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  21. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dualkit View Post
    Is that the low rent district where pay is low or did you think you got a low starting wage because of your background? After being self employed I would rather die than go back working for someone and I think most self employed feel the same. Considering that I think most people would be leery of hiring someone who used to own their own shop.
    Sanford is kind of a medium district on the outskirts of Orlando but still cost too much to live there if the wife don't work. And pretty much all the shops there payed the same. I took the low starting wage only because they talked about all the opportunities verses the other shops I went to.

    As far as the self employed bit, 16 years of putting up with employees not showing, a tax here an insurance payment there, customers not paying, Bogus work comp claims, Attorneys, a fleet of aging Cincinnati machines no longer supported, plus everything else that goes along with having a shop I just said hell with it. A shop in Georgia came and bought all my equipment, I rented my buildings out and was outta there. You are right about rather die then go back to work for someone else. After a couple of years of that is when decided to come to Asia and just do contract work.

    Considering that I think most people would be leery of hiring someone who used to own their own shop
    Its not really a problem, I didn't want the shop when my grandfather died but it had been there since 1945 so rather than just closing the doors I figured Id give it a go. But remember 2006-2008 was tough for shops. Everywhere I looked there was an auction. And my biggest customers (Olin Chemical, DuPont, M&M Mars and Bechtel all sent letters informing me that their new payment terms would stretch out to 90 days. Olin and M&M went out to 120 days. Kinda hard to keep 20-30 employees on and stay afloat with those terms.

    After the short stint in Florida one of Don's (Millacron) friends called me from Savannah asking if I would like to manage Continental Field Systems and doubled my salary. That was pretty much like still owning my shop just without all the headache. Just one of the times I was considered due to my experience as being a shop owner in the past.

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    Basically one has to please the person (S) in charge, do work that is above his/her current pay rate, be in a shop that has higher pay scale, and ask for the raise with good cause.
    likely/often one needs a year or more at a shop to go past the shops rule of normal pay advancement.

    and/or really be that good.

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    I'd think every employee should be getting 2% per year increase without asking for it. That is what even a mediocre union labor contract can usually haggle out, and it is reasonable, and the shame should be on the boss who doesn't comply with that norm. That's not to say that all businesses can afford that without increasing actual sales somehow. So if the workload is steady, and not growing, then maybe the cash flow isn't improving. That's where going elsewhere makes sense.

    Going self employed though, is going to cost you plenty and you need to be prepared to be 100% responsible for yourself. Then you get to see the hidden 35% cost that is above and beyond your hourly wage, just to keep you around. Then you'll find out whether it makes sense to boost wages when you're losing money, a totally nonsense approach to real life.

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  25. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by g-coder05 View Post
    But remember 2006-2008 was tough for shops. Everywhere I looked there was an auction.
    That is when "Dualkit" died. I used to sell dual alternator kits and other items I designed and manufactured to the limousine industry. The recession killed most of the builders off. I went from 23 active customers to 1 in less than 2 years. I went from 5 employees plus myself to just me. My shop was designed around my product line. I decided to go the job shop route. I had an equipment fire sale, I had dedicated machines. Between the PC based ones and the manuals I had a dozen mills, I had a half dozen manual lathes. I bought that stuff during a good economy and sold it in the middle of a recession. Most off the stuff went for 1/4 to 1/3 of what I had paid for it 5-10 years prior. Oh, the memories.

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  27. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dualkit View Post
    Private sector union jobs are 6.5%. Last I checked government machinist jobs are few and far between. Your advice is useless. What are you doing in the shop owner and management thread anyway?
    I also happen to own a shop. It's a one man show but it is a commercial shop. I didn't know that you were the shop owner forum police. I wonder how many others that post on this section of the forum aren't shop owners. My guess is plenty. Like the OP for example.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dualkit View Post
    I bought that stuff during a good economy and sold it in the middle of a recession. Most off the stuff went for 1/4 to 1/3 of what I had paid for it 5-10 years prior. Oh, the memories.
    Sheer genius.

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