Best starter cnc

thewynner98 · Oct 20, 2021

Hey all. I have a small one man shop doing cnc milling and manual lathe work to support my custom car shop. However the two year long builds ive been on are finishing up soon and i would like to make the transition into a bigger cnc for production work. I only need to generate 48 hrs a month to make my bills. I can swing a 600/mo payment and it looks like that will get me into roughly a 30-40k machine. So what am i getting and why. My lathe handles everything I throw at it but the little mini mill i have isnt cutting it at 7.5in/min and its limited 1200 rpm spindle. So far I really like the look of a tormach 1100mx. I could go with a smaller tormach as I do have all the tts tooling currently but a bigger spindle and an actual taper seems a better option. Any other good options in that price range??? Haas toolroom or mini mill or a used vf??? Planning on doing aluminum primarily and some steel as well. Best company for financing??? The tormach is appealing as I dont have a forklift nor ceiling height for one and it seems manageable without one. Single phase or under 10hp 3 phase. (20hp rotary phase converter)

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TeachMePlease · Oct 20, 2021

Don't. Buy. The. Tormach.

Don't.

CatMan · Oct 20, 2021

I'm not a Haas fan, but from what you listed, a used VF2 would be my choice. If you want to get into some serious milling, I'd want to get an actual mill.

chuckg7442 · Oct 20, 2021

My company has done well with a couple Fadals. I personally think the controller is a bit weird, I'm more used to fanuc and dynapath controllers, but I can stumble my way through a fadal and get the machine to run good parts. Not sure what they cost now, but they were economical about 20 years ago. lol

mhajicek · Oct 20, 2021

I just got a Haas CM-1 for tiny med device parts, and I was thinking of getting a Tormach for the few larger parts I'm sometimes asked to do. I visited a client who's using one, and they were struggling to cut .100" axial x .100" radial in aluminum with a 1/2" endmill. We could barely hear each other over the chatter. My baby ISO-20 taper CM-1 has way more balls than that Tormach. Scratched that idea.

Garwood · Oct 20, 2021

How do you do custom automotive work and lack room for a real VMC? Vehicles take up much more more room than a real machining center.

DDoug · Oct 20, 2021

Garwood said:
How do you do custom automotive work and lack room for a real VMC? Vehicles take up much more more room than a real machining center.

"Truck mounted VMC" now that could be the start of a Haas adverting campaign.

Mike1974 · Oct 20, 2021

CatMan said:
I'm not a Haas fan, but from what you listed, a used VF2 would be my choice. If you want to get into some serious milling, I'd want to get an actual mill.

He said he is cutting steel and aluminum. Any Haas (well, decent shape) will do that all day. No, you won't hog, but with CAM hs toolpaths it's not an issue, unless you are finger-camming...

thewynner98 · Oct 20, 2021

Garwood said:
How do you do custom automotive work and lack room for a real VMC? Vehicles take up much more more room than a real machining center.

I'd love to know that myself lol. Its a constant struggle. Albeit you dont usually need 10 feet in every direction around a vmc like you do a custom car. I could set it up the same way as my lathe with the cabinet accessable through the garage door and tight too the garage door. If i need to work on it i do outside otherwise I have plenty of room in front. Anyone here hear of a syil x7???? Seems a possible happy medium.

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thewynner98 · Oct 20, 2021

mhajicek said:
I just got a Haas CM-1 for tiny med device parts, and I was thinking of getting a Tormach for the few larger parts I'm sometimes asked to do. I visited a client who's using one, and they were struggling to cut .100" axial x .100" radial in aluminum with a 1/2" endmill. We could barely hear each other over the chatter. My baby ISO-20 taper CM-1 has way more balls than that Tormach. Scratched that idea.

Which tormach??? The 1100mx has a bt30 taper which should be decent enough. I know weight is a big factor in rigidity but i dont see how its manageable for me to get much bigger than a tormach weight wise given my space. Last set of riggers I had quote to move my lathe was 5500 bucks. Ended up paying a guy with a gradall 300 bucks for his time.

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Turbowerks · Oct 21, 2021

digger doug said:
"Truck mounted VMC" now that could be the start of a Haas adverting campaign.

Sunnen had a benchtop hone in the back of station wagons that went around to automotive shops to sell them on honing connecting rods.

When I find it I don’t need it
When I need it I can’t find it!

jackal · Oct 22, 2021

I'm for the Haas at that level and size/price. Around here ( Arkansas) they have great support, repair, and quick service.

mhajicek · Oct 22, 2021

thewynner98 said:
Which tormach??? The 1100mx has a bt30 taper which should be decent enough. I know weight is a big factor in rigidity but i dont see how its manageable for me to get much bigger than a tormach weight wise given my space. Last set of riggers I had quote to move my lathe was 5500 bucks. Ended up paying a guy with a gradall 300 bucks for his time.

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That's the one, 1100MX. The spindle taper and machine weight are only small parts of the equation; the quality, size, and spacing of the rails and trucks, and the exact geometry of the casting(s) make a huge difference.

EmGo · Oct 22, 2021

Doug said:
A B'port sized unit will be a quantum leap from what you have now.

For example; probably get it for five, pay for itself in six months and after that all free, a hundred times better than any Tormach. Plenty like this.

>> Tree Journeyman 425 CNC Mill << - tools - by owner - sale

thewynner98 · Oct 22, 2021

EmanuelGoldstein said:
For example; probably get it for five, pay for itself in six months and after that all free, a hundred times better than any Tormach. Plenty like this.

>> Tree Journeyman 425 CNC Mill << - tools - by owner - sale

I agree and for repair/car work I am looking for a bridgeport but I would like to make the transition out of cars into machining full time. I think the syil x7 looks like a better deal, a real vmc and a much better bang for your buck

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Jaxian · Oct 22, 2021

You really need to settle on the question of new vs used first. Half the machines people have mentioned here used are a total crapshoot for newbie to buy. You have no way to assess if they are junk or not and you don't have the time, money, or expertise to fix them when they inevitably break. They WILL break or not even work in the first place. How much do you want to learn machine tool repair? Used machines are NOT for people getting started who want to USE the machine rather than learn to work on them.

Now that you have decided that you can asses how each of the New or Used models fares against each other. I have seen people do garbage work on new Mori's and make tons of money with Tormach's so don't discount that just on what people say here. People here expect the machines to run everyday, all day with repeatable results. They throw Haas under the bus constantly because even they have trouble doing that to an acceptable level for tighter tolerance work. So take everything with a grain of salt.

Personally if that was your price limit one of the small Haas with a nice warranty would be my choice. Be aware, despite what people are saying here they are barely better than a Tormach 1100MX. The parts are vastly more expensive and the support community is vastly less friendly. Remember, you are supposed to be a professional and already know how to do everything. If you don't it can get tough.

Remember Haas HFO make a little money off the sale and most of profit on service and support. That means you. Be ready to pay a fortune for service techs, support and parts. That is their main income stream, don't expect good prices.

triumph406 · Oct 22, 2021

Get a used Fadal 3016, I've seen good examples go at auction from $3-$12K, not too large a footprint, easy to run, and more importantly easy to fix. If you can fix a car you can fix a Fadal.

triumph406 · Oct 22, 2021

thewynner98 said:
I agree and for repair/car work I am looking for a bridgeport but I would like to make the transition out of cars into machining full time. I think the syil x7 looks like a better deal, a real vmc and a much better bang for your buck

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Have you ever worked in a machine shop? machined full time? got customers who could keep you busy?

It's not as easy as it looks.

thewynner98 · Oct 22, 2021

Jaxian said:
You really need to settle on the question of new vs used first. Half the machines people have mentioned here used are a total crapshoot for newbie to buy. You have no way to assess if they are junk or not and you don't have the time, money, or expertise to fix them when they inevitably break. They WILL break or not even work in the first place. How much do you want to learn machine tool repair? Used machines are NOT for people getting started who want to USE the machine rather than learn to work on them.

Now that you have decided that you can asses how each of the New or Used models fares against each other. I have seen people do garbage work on new Mori's and make tons of money with Tormach's so don't discount that just on what people say here. People here expect the machines to run everyday, all day with repeatable results. They throw Haas under the bus constantly because even they have trouble doing that to an acceptable level for tighter tolerance work. So take everything with a grain of salt.

Personally if that was your price limit one of the small Haas with a nice warranty would be my choice. Be aware, despite what people are saying here they are barely better than a Tormach 1100MX. The parts are vastly more expensive and the support community is vastly less friendly. Remember, you are supposed to be a professional and already know how to do everything. If you don't it can get tough.

Remember Haas HFO make a little money off the sale and most of profit on service and support. That means you. Be ready to pay a fortune for service techs, support and parts. That is their main income stream, don't expect good prices.

Thanks. I dont mind doing repair electronics and wiring don't scare me im very mechanically apt because of wrenching on cars houses semis etc.... and i have no problem wrenching on one its more a matter of i want to make money not make a hobby out of fixing it. The tormach was my main idea as it seemed the most cost effective but the syil seems a lot more bang for the same buck. I understand people will cry about everything and this is just a stepping stone for me. This machine needs to pay for itself and a bigger shop or second machine for me. Thanks for all the help and opinions yall. Thinking I want to go new. The syil seems highly regarded by folks in other parts of the world and their us support is picking up here. Someday a doosan or other large 5 axis is in my sights. But a small 3 axis vmc is the next step. Thanks for all the advice and tips and opinions!!!!!

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thewynner98 · Oct 22, 2021

triumph406 said:
Have you ever worked in a machine shop? machined full time? got customers who could keep you busy?

It's not as easy as it looks.

Worked only for my self machining, if i could get a job that pays more than mcdonald's here I would love to spend a year or two machining under someone else. Been around it a long time as Dad was an engineer, slowly picking up a few customers here and there but I'm hesitant to advertise because of my lack of a good vmc. There is lots of available work out here in my area. Like I said I only need to bill 2800 a month in work to make my bills and replace my wrenching income. Thats not that many hours as most of you do that in less than a week.

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