Business Insurance

Who are you folks using right now for business insurance?

I have myself plus 3 employees in a 6500sqft leased facility at the edge of Portland. No crazy requirements, but our landlord does have a specific set of criteria for coverages, and we are not currently compliant.

I hooked up with Farmer's Insurance about 5 years ago. However, our insurance agent has been slowly getting less and less responsive, and at this point it is virtually impossible to get anything out of him. We have been battling to get a couple simple policy revisions for months. I feel bad, because it's probably been an awful year for them; COVID, then the riots, then the wildfires. Ultimately though, I need to make sure that we have the coverage we need.

In the past nobody else would even consider insuring my part time machine shop in a pole barn. Would like to hear who everybody else likes so I don't waste my time with a bunch more rejections.

Travelers has programs for blacksmiths (pole barn would be high roller in this field) that were reasonable when I needed insurance. Have no idea how well they pay out (kind of the end of insurance no one talks about). I have progressive now for my side hustle- all paper work stuff so apples/oranges comparison. They would insure a business but not me as a artist/blacksmith a few years ago. They have a good reputation for paying out.

Grange, through an independent agency.

I have had what used to be Safeco, until Liberty bought them ten years or so ago- Liberty seems worth checking into, I have had no problems with them.

Well, got my first rejection from Sentry this afternoon.

Filled out a short form on their website and sent it in. Exchanged a very brief email with one of their admins, then was informed that they regret that our business profile does not appear to be a good fit. I really don't know WTF these guys want to see. Literally all I told them was:

business name
business type (contract manufacturing - CNC Machine shop)
address (in a commercial park)
4 employees - self included -
600k / yr sales

Guess that's enough to build a profile and decide we aren't worth pursuing...

You probably need an independent agent to shop for you.

The way I see it, it's a bit of a game and they know how to present your business to the correct carrier.

I had The Hartford for 7 years since I started then out of the blue for me anyway they dropped me, said they were not going to renew. They finally told my agent that it was due to a picture I had of my nephews with a wooden truck I made them on my website. I was too high of a risk due to that. They never got in contact with me to ask about it or clarify etc, just dropped me. I don't sell kids toys or anything, just had a cool pic on the site for some content. Interesting thing is my site was untouched the whole time I had them, I set it up and never updated it that whole time. My guess is one of their other customers got sued so they audited everyones' stuff.

If you have a website or social media, go through it all with a insurance companies evil perspective, there may be something there they consider a risk.

The Hartford doesn't seem to know what it is doing in house, after they dropped me, I kept getting letters for sales numbers, I ignored it for awhile, then I kept getting letters in the mail and emails so I replied via email that I wasn't their customer, I sent them a letter in the mail. I called them and they told me they'd fix it, no change. They are as bad as some telecoms like Comcast.

It took awhile to find another company. I fall into a bunch of uninsurable loopholes it seems. I mainly have a wood shop with cnc router, so some companies don't insure wood shops, but I also have a metalworking shop with fab and I have cars. So the wood shop insurance people don't insure cars in the shop. I don't work on cars for customers, doesn't matter. I guess I could buy another building and separate the cars out, but that is not feasible at this time. Metal working insurance won't cover wood shops...

The last 2 years I have had Graham Rogers, so far it has been fine.

Good luck

Federated. They have been nothing short of fantastic.

jamscal said:

You probably need an independent agent to shop for you.

The way I see it, it's a bit of a game and they know how to present your business to the correct carrier.

Click to expand...

When I opened my business in 1967, I went to an old established independent insurance agent. I bought every kind of insurance from them over the years, adding car, house, health, life, etc. They handled many companies and found a good fit at the best price. I kept them after I closed the business and retired until about 5 years ago when I went to add a car to my auto policy. I was not even invited to sit down, and found that they had moved into the investment business. I found an agent who carried my current auto policy.

I think an independent agency that used a bunch of insurance companies would be your best solution.

Paul

I have had Federated for 7 years with no issue. Had auto-owners before that, what a joke they were.

I still prefer Smith & Weston or Ruger for insurance, but they won't give me any Certificate of Insurance.

Sent from my rotary dial flip fone

Ideal with a company that pays out over-generously,consequently their premiums are a bit high...but having had insurance claims rejected in the past,I have learnt from the experience.

Travelers has programs for blacksmiths (pole barn would be high roller in this field) that were reasonable when I needed insurance. Have no idea how well they pay out (kind of the end of insurance no one talks about). I have progressive now for my side hustle- all paper work stuff so apples/oranges comparison. They would insure a business but not me as a artist/blacksmith a few years ago. They have a good reputation for paying out.

Click to expand...

Travelers is odd, I had them on for a while at my shop in Tennessee and they paid out no problem on claims. But when I got sucked into that VTL at Doncaster in San Diego they even fought to get work comp delayed. Bashed my head on the X2 ram and the chuck jaws ripped the meniscus out of both kneecaps. Took 2 months before a single work comp then they loopholed the payment for my knee surgeries at the hospital in Mexicali. The ambulance chaser that took my case out there said Travelers was known for short changing claims.

Must be a west coast thing.

Mc G...I would say the boys were the reason......boys 5 to 17 are the biggest risk factor in house fires ,so Im told.

I have found that I have to switch insurance companys every 5 years or so. they get complacent think you wouldn't leave, and quit doing their job, now its 3rd time they drop the ball, I start shopping. There is always a hungry new agent that will do his job until he gets enough revenue coming in, then they start golfing and quit getting the paperwork out, I have gone through 4 companies and it all follows the same pattern the first few years great service then rapidly ramps down. most of my clients want proof of insurance from insurance company before I start a job or their is special bonding requirements, it gets pawned off onto the car wreck help who dont know how to do bonding and weeks later my stuff isn't in. so I plan on switching every 5 years, maybe these guys Im using now won't follow the pattern, sure would be nice, I do pay a premium though and they are about 15% higher

boosted said:

Well, got my first rejection from Sentry this afternoon. ..

Click to expand...

That's weird. I thought they specialized in machine shops. In my area they have a sales rep. You might call in and try to get contact for them if they have one in your area. I use them and never have been to their website. They paid out twice for me (spindle due to operator error, shop burglarized). They seem very good although my rates have gone up a good notch, wonder why..

anyone from ontario ? who is the best most reasonable easy to deal with for a cnc machine shop?

Insurance? Why? Insurance is a question you dont ask until you need it. Do you feel like what you make makes you vulnerable to a lawsuit? At some point a lawsuit is inevitable. But you should use common sense and when that time happens you just need to be big enough to absorb it

Fred Rezfield said:

anyone from ontario ? who is the best most reasonable easy to deal with for a cnc machine shop?

Click to expand...

I am, it’s nearly impossible to get insurance for a machine shop here. The most honest guy of the 12 I spoke to finally said outright it’s because no underwriter has to write anything with even a fraction of a percent of risk, their business is always viable, they don’t give a shit if yours isn’t.

Why get insurance? Because it’s a requirement of a commercial lease. Unless you’re in the enviable position of owning a building you’ll need proof of general liability at a minimum.

What’s your premium? We paid $2850 last year, no claim history.

I don’t understand why anyone wouldn’t have insurance. Great for them if someone is financially sound enough to self insure but depending on the level of customers you have and work you do you could be exposed to huge liability if your part/work/service is determined to be involved in some kind of incident.

Not only that but if you do repair work and say your building burns down and your customer loses their part, that part may be worth an absolute fortune.

Do you know why business insurance is so cheap? Like a couple thousand for million+ in coverage...because it rarely ever ...ever needs to be used.