Buying machinery sight unseen...................
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  1. #1
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    Default Buying machinery sight unseen...................

    Buying from a machine dealer coupla states over. Brand new(never installed) piece of equipment. Nothing I can see wrong with the unit. Just something that was bought by a large company and never put into service and then the used dealer picked it up for a song(I'm sure). Every machine I ever bought was either new or inspected in person. What kinda guarantees should I put on my offer and eventual PO?

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    #1 make sure they actually have it.

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    I know some shops I would trust..
    Also hear about flim-flam guys that might take you money ans vanish.

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    If you are too busy to take a road trip and check it out is there a trusted PM member that could look it over for a small gratuity? I bought a machine in the same manner, just off of phone calls and a video. It was all the way across the country, I hate plane rides and did not have the time to drive. At the time the price even with shipping was way less than comparable machines listed locally that I could look at. I figure it was worth the gamble to save money. For the record that was a dozen+ years ago or so and I bought the machine off of Milacron.

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    It's Vander Ziel Machinery in Alto, MI if that helps. Not sure if belonging to the MDNA means anything? They said the machine is on their floor and they almost never broker equipment? Every picture of equipment on their website is in the taken in the same building(same back ground); mills, lathes, drills, grinders, etc.................

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    I would think a lawyer (who should be brought in) would provide some verbage
    such like "Perform to Manuf's specifications, and will be run off at customers
    location, inspection per 3rd party for sign off and final payment"

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    Western MI, huh? Based on what I've seen, including the number of industrial auctions happening out that way, I'd say the story that it was purchased for work that never materialized is certainly plausible. Seems every time I want to look at a used machine or auction I have to drive out to Grand Rapids/Kalamazoo area. Can't speak to the trustworthiness of any particular dealers out that way though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by david n View Post
    It's Vander Ziel Machinery in Alto, MI if that helps..................
    Well, on their web site it says:

    Policies

    30-Day Return Privilege: We guarantee our machines! If you don’t like it, you don’t own it! We will give you a full refund if you are not satisfied (and return it to us in the same condition it was shipped). *Please note, this does not apply to machines sold on an AS-IS basis.

    -------

    Most often, not always, if a seller is screwing buyers there will be buyers making sure their negative opinion of them is on the internet for others to see.

    As long as they say they have checked it out and are not selling it "As is" seems pretty safe to me. Bought two machines from half way across the country, no problems with either transaction.

    Steve

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    You usually only hear the horror stories of buyin'..............when stuff goes off without a hitch no one thinks any of it........................

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    When I buy anything sight unseen I always try to follow one rule; everyone has a different view of condition. If it was what you say I would try to have what you expect spelled out in any offer so there's no possibility of any confusion.
    Dan

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    I know Vander Ziel Machinery. My Dad has bought from them. I trust them.

    I don't think they typically broker machines. They have a huge warehouse out in the country. Most the the equipment that they list on their website is in that warehouse.

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    Never heard anything bad about that outfit..Have they ever ran the machine..Would they fire it up and run it through speeds and handles for a reasonable charge..couple hundred?
    I would trust what they say but with never running it who knows..
    like new and even never started is not new so the manufacturers backing is gone..fer bucks off for that..

    if you went to see it you would expect them to fire it up..likely for free...

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    Quote Originally Posted by BoxcarPete View Post
    Western MI, huh? Based on what I've seen, including the number of industrial auctions happening out that way, I'd say the story that it was purchased for work that never materialized is certainly plausible. Seems every time I want to look at a used machine or auction I have to drive out to Grand Rapids/Kalamazoo area. Can't speak to the trustworthiness of any particular dealers out that way though.
    The plant that I worked at bought many millions of dollars worth of machinery and spent many millions more prepping the building for it and installing it and then mothballed it for several years. We ended up "borrowing" parts from some of the machinery and the managers came up with "machine cannibalizing" tags so they would know what had to be replaced before it could to into production. So yes, it can happen that someone will buy machinery and never use it.

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    Make sure to bring plenty of cash and have plenty of time to wander around their warehouse. First time that I went to VanderZiel machinery it was located on a wooden farm barn. Steve the owner was thrilled to talk to a real live machinist type. I think he told me that he had gone to the skill center in high school but never worked in the industry except to sell machinery.

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    I like to wrap the critical area to keep road dire out of the works..
    https://www.homedepot.com/p/Pratt-Re...-202854037-_-N

    then wrap with a tarp.

    I see they have a mill and a surface grinder listed as un-used...

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    Quote Originally Posted by david n View Post
    You usually only hear the horror stories of buyin'..............when stuff goes off without a hitch no one thinks any of it........................
    I bought my Index mill from Vander Ziel about seven years ago. Picked it up myself. Big warehouse lots of machines. They were good to deal with.

    FWIW

    -Ron

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    We bought a new DoAll horizontal saw at work from them, no problems!
    I talked to Steve at a few auctions over the years and have been to their warehouse, I would not hesitate to buy from them!

    Kevin

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    Quote Originally Posted by david n View Post
    Buying from a machine dealer coupla states over. Brand new(never installed) piece of equipment. Nothing I can see wrong with the unit. Just something that was bought by a large company and never put into service and then the used dealer picked it up for a song(I'm sure). Every machine I ever bought was either new or inspected in person. What kinda guarantees should I put on my offer and eventual PO?
    Just take a day off and go see it in person. Be prepared to buy it. It’s easier to negotiate in person anyway.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    I wouldnt buy used machines sight unseen from a tool dealer unless its a very very cheap price. I have and spent alot of money and time getting them fixed. bought a hitachi seiki from one of the used machinery clowns here in the valley in the late 90's. 2 year old machine.I happened to be at the shop when it arrived looked at it after they got it off the truck and it was burnt like as in fire burnt. dirty as crap and looked like a 50 year old machine.the pictures they showed me of the machine look immaculate(it wasnt the same one) I refused delivery and fought for 3 months to get my money back and I never recouped the 4k for shipping they charged. made them load it back up and take it elsewhere.

    from friend or people I know or other shops that are selling on new machines I got no problem buying sight unseen and havent had any problems with that route yet.

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    I work for a Used Machinery Dealer and I agree with Hot Rolled. I would also make sure you get everything in writing, or hire an outside contractor in the area to inspect the machine. We sell a lot of used Haas equipment and we always recommend paying the local HFO to do an inspection. We just had a guy on the West coast try to tell us that his SL-30T, had nothing wrong with it, the buyer had the California Haas HFO inspect the machine. Found bad belts, bad z-axis ball screw, the oiler was plugged solid, bad z axis ball screw bearing, turret on station 3, 4, & 5 were very loud upon indexing, indicating damage to the coupler from a crash or needed to realigned. The buyer passed and decided to go new, our loss, but we would rather somebody get a good machine than a bad one our reputation is on the line.


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