Can you speedup an employee?

I have an apprentice that seems to have developed a problem. He is a good, steady worker, knows our work, our customers and always does a fantastic job. The problem is, he is now being such a perfectionist, It is blowing quoted jobs out of the water, and it makes it impossible to do accurate scheduling. I mean of course I want the job done right, but this is a job shop and the stuff has to get done in a "reasonable" amount of time. Jobs HE has done in the past in 6 hours have now taken 15 hours. His reply is, "well you should charge more", or "it takes as long as it takes". He has one speed, and even if we get a panic job he dosen't go any faster. I really chewed him out today because he gave me some attitude in front of a customer. He has been here for 4 years know and is a talented worker but I am at the end of my rope trying to get him to "modify" his work habits. He honestly thinks as long as the job is a work of art each time that is all that matters, whether there is a profit on the job or not is not his problem. I need to fix this.

Pay him less for every hour he spends more on a job than expected. Give him a bonus if he finishes a job earlier than planned.
(I don't run a shop so take my advice with a grain of salt )

Pay BACK

Is this guy your Apprentice or did he apprentice somewhere else? Are you a tool and die shop or a job shop?
Does he know what the cost is for an employer to apprentice a machinist / TOOL AND DIE MAKER! Jesus Christ just kill him on the spot and bring in the next one! NO NO NO don't do that! VENT ~ VENT ~ Sorry!

I had around 100 in the shop on average before retiring. I apprenticed over half of the workforce. Just because he has mastered being able to be "UN-supervised" does not make him a Journeymen! Ask him what his goals are and explain to him that he has done well in some areas but still has a ways to go. Do this in private and explain to him that's what you expect him to do from now on if he needs to discuss a problem!

If your willing to further invest in him, he needs to know what opportunities you are giving him.

If he tells you that he thinks he can run his own business "ALREADY" replace him!

If he tells you someday you've got him.

Quality, Speed, Delivery will keep you all in a job, explain this in a way he can understand! Let him know that you can provide the coaching he "Might need to get to the next level and beyond!

Go Get Him.

Jim

I find that either people can work fast and accurate, fast and mess up, slow and accurate or slow and mess up.
I own a job/tool shop and I only know one gear, fast and accurate.
You have no choice, give him his check tomorrow and fire him. JC

Base pay plus production incentive?
Not based on "expectations", based on comparatives. Give a job to another hand and set the mark,then see what this fellow can do with it.

If he used to do what was expected, something has changed. Is it you? If he is acting out, there is a problem unrelated to machinist skills and work ethic. Talk to him, his goals may have changed. Chewing him out is NOT talking to him. Listen!

CalG

Anybody can make a nice part, not everybody can make a nice part efficiently. 4yrs is plenty long to learn to do both. Tooling can sometimes play a big factor. I know some parts I do with my machines in 1 hour could take me a day in some other shops and still not achieve the same quality. Though from pictures you showed before it looks like you have that pretty well in order.

On the positive side, if he ever wants to start his own shop he won't be much of a competition unless he wants to work for $5.00/hr

Steve@Reliance said:

I have an apprentice that seems to have developed a problem. He is a good, steady worker, knows our work, our customers and always does a fantastic job. The problem is, he is now being such a perfectionist, It is blowing quoted jobs out of the water, and it makes it impossible to do accurate scheduling. I mean of course I want the job done right, but this is a job shop and the stuff has to get done in a "reasonable" amount of time. Jobs HE has done in the past in 6 hours have now taken 15 hours. His reply is, "well you should charge more", or "it takes as long as it takes". He has one speed, and even if we get a panic job he dosen't go any faster. I really chewed him out today because he gave me some attitude in front of a customer. He has been here for 4 years know and is a talented worker but I am at the end of my rope trying to get him to "modify" his work habits. He honestly thinks as long as the job is a work of art each time that is all that matters, whether there is a profit on the job or not is not his problem. I need to fix this.

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Give the guy a short business lesson. Explain that the customer is NOT WILLING to pay any more for the job, and that if you raise the price that another hungry machine shop will gladly do it instead, which will then leave you in the position of having to choose someone to lay off.

I am kicking myself for not handling it better. Your right, chewing him out is not helping either of us, Although I offered him help, that comment would have been drowned out by the rest of my diatribe. I have invested 4 years in this guy so I would really rather fix the problems than cut him lose. And a big plus for him is he can do just about any type of job with a reasonable amount of skill. I guess overall it's the lack of concern for making the shop money is what really ticks me off.

Is his slow pace and bad attitude over money? If he use to do good work fast and didn't feel he was being compensated for it, then he'll slow down and get a bad attitude. One thing he will never cut back on is quality of work because he takes pride in that. I don't think snapping at him will matter because if you don't care about his paycheck then he's not gonna care about yours. My suggestion is talk to him, offer a bonus if he gets a job out in a certain amount of time. Money will probably motivate him.

Tell him some rash asshole in the states wondered who was working for who?

If he, himself, did the same job in half the time before, he's trying to tell you something. Give him a chance to spit it out. Look in his eyes and ask him "what's the message you are trying to convey, here?"

If he wants to be cryptic, just show him the door. Lots of fresh young hungry blood out there for the asking right now, and you might as well enjoy some of it. Maybe he's trying to get fired and go on the dole. Nothing and nobody lasts forever....Joe

Steve@Reliance said:

....Jobs HE has done in the past in 6 hours have now taken 15 hours.

....His reply is, "well you should charge more", or "it takes as long as it takes".

....I need to fix this.

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Well.... Are you charging enough?

Was he highly motivated and is now getting tired of busting his a** ?

Maybe the right thing is somewhere in the middle.
Time to rethink your pricing AND audit work efficiency.
How long does it take you or others to do that job ?
Two of the hardest jobs:
1. Pricing.
2. Motivating people.
Good luck.

SM

I have to agree with Joe D. there. Fire his butt out the door and then hire a guy
who works for less and is better than he is, and faster too. While you are at it,
fire the rest of the staff and replace them with the same kind of guys.

Or you can do what they did in my shop, take 15 percent of the workers and show
them the door. Best is if you do this to older folks who are making the most.
Then tell the remaining folks that they're next if they don't pick up the pace and
do their old job, plus the job of their co-worker who just got laid off.

Times are tough, it's hard to get a job. Nothing like fear to motivate workers. Best
way to instill fear is to teleport a nearby worker into oblivion. Saves money too.

Jim

Steve, a few of us were bitching about this same thing in the "job search tips for machining" thread.

His reply is, "well you should charge more", or "it takes as long as it takes".

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I wouldn't like that a bit. It took me a while to learn that sometimes nobody is better than somebody(in this game and others). Even if they are valuable, you have to realize this attitude spreads and can poison everybody.

You said he gave you attitude in front of a customer, GONE, something has changed. There are million things, he could have the "I'm better than you" syndrome, Gone, let him come up with the capital and find the customers. Could be a problem with the old lady, could be drugs or booze, could be his mom or his dog just died and he's pissed off at the world. One of my dogs died very recently, bad kidneys, and I'm pretty pissed at the world and my work has suffered, I just don't have to answer to a boss anymore.

Steve, I'm not sure how big or what type of shop you run, but, if the guy is worth it, and you know he's good, you need to pony up. Put on the big set of balls and talk to him one on one, you already know something is wrong and something has changed, you just need to find out why, and thats not always fun.

Personally as a guy who ran a shop for somebody, I've usually only had to skirt it, but had to get into it deep once to keep a good employee that went to hell. I learned more about his guy than I ever wanted to know, I tried giving him paid time off to screw his head back on, we made some shift adjustments. We opened a new line of communication, and I never said anything to anybody and never held a single thing against him, or ever brought it up. I ended up with an even better employee.

If you think its worth it, might be worth a shot, maybe take him out to lunch. If not, just fire him, and I hate firing people, but sometimes it just has to be done, its their own fault and you get over it after a couple of days of feeling guilty. If you let it go on, it only gets worse.

Our pricing is in line with other shops in the area. And he is generally getting the best of the jobs. I am starting to get the feeling he is trying to get a point across by dragging his heels, although there are more effective ways to communicate.

Steve.

You sound like you are a reasonable fellow. I'm sure your "problem" shares that opinion.

Find out what is eating the guy. Then draw a plane to make it all right.
(That doesn't mean bend over!)

A good man is hard to replace and EXPENSIVE.

Don't give up until you must!

Yep! Just a damned socialist at heart

CalG

jim rozen said:

Nothing like fear to motivate workers.

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I just posted, but this popped up in the meantime. The old saying, you can catch a lot more flies with honey than vinegar.

As I said before, I ran a shop for somebody else, I couldn't pay people shit, I had to fight tooth and nail to get somebody $7 an hour. I tried to make it as pleasant as possible. On scrap day, everybody got a $50 in their pocket. The good ones might have got a $100 or $150.

I couldn't do cash bonuses, but I could do tool bonuses without the owner knowing, "get me 300 of these good and in the box before you leave and $100 tool bonus". Wait for the old J&L 25% off and they got stuff for free, I actually bought one part time university student A tool box, a nice kennedy at that.

Some of these people bent over backwards for me, the "unofficial" meetings around the corner at "the pub", tab picked up by me didn't hurt.

Fear can work, but I preferred not to be having to look over my shoulder all the time. I preferred to trust my people and have them trust me, and they worked harder that way. Threats have their place, but its no way to run a business day in and day out, it all just goes to shit.

jim rozen said:

Best is if you do this to older folks who are making the most.

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Yeah, and that's how the quality went out of just about everything we used to make in this country. Bulls**t!!

You get rid of the ones who aren't producing! Geez!



Pete

Steve

There is not one of us who could not improve our communication skills.

You might have to provide the example!

just say'n

CalG

Steve , I'm in the Industrial sheet metal business, a 30 year Job Foreman. I 've seen lots of attitudes as you have. Some of them are prone to listening to others in the shop who are negatives, team killers. They whip up the lunch time chatter and the tales get bigger and bolder all the time.
Others seem to want to shine so much that they run their mouths to the point where all are watching nearby and they are afraid to turn out anything less the perfect.
Still the third issue may be that he just thinks he knows your business better than you do, does he have a set of ears in the office ??
I've seen lots of attitudes as these guys learn the trade and then start to grow up, sometimes it's got nothing to do with you and work at all, as was stated earlier. Those can be delicate situations. I have had to sit guys down and draw circles on the chalk board, and fill them in on the facts of business life, if nothing else works I give them a week off, due to we can do it without ya------------ That usually breaks the ice.