CARES Act Paycheck Protection Program???? - Page 3
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  1. #41
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    I'm probably paranoid but does anyone think it's a justifiable worry that accepting this money could increase your chances of an OSHA visit? It says on the application OSHA can require businesses to modify facilities and procedures to protect employees. Businesses that do not comply may be fined.... by signing this you...." I know this is already the case, but is part of OSHAs duties gonna be like hey auto generate a name off the PPP loan list and go make a visit?

    What if you really didn't need it and took it? Just gotta pay it back? I like the sound of free money and it sounds nice after putting in hard work and paying taxes and all that. I'm just paranoid I'd be getting in a system that could trigger detrimental things. Am I completely unjustified in any of these worries?

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    This came from my bank,but don't trust this ask your SBA participating lender..notice the 2019 tax

    Your business launch date, annual revenue and mailing address

    · 2019 IRS Quarterly 940, 941 or 944 payroll tax reports

    · Payroll reports for a 12-month period (ending on the most recent payroll date)

    · 1099s for independent contractors for 2019

    · Total health insurance premiums paid by the company owner(s) under a group health plan (including all employees and the company owners)

    · Sum of all retirement plan funding that was paid by the company owner(s), including 401K plans, Simple IRAs and SEP IRAs for all employees and owners. (There is no need to include funding that came from employees out of paycheck deferrals.)



    I’ve included the link to the SBA website for additional information if needed. I

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by FulcrumPro View Post
    After you get the money: Your rent (and other non-payroll costs) is $5,000 per month for a total of $10,000 over the 8-week eligibility period. You'd only be able to write off forgiveness for $4,000. You'd still owe $6,000 on the loan after the period is over.
    Fulcrum, I'm going to upgrade your example from "wrong" to just "bad". The key in your example is that your person uses the "payroll protection" money exclusively for things other than payroll. It might as well be 10k at the strip club. So, technically, your example is correct, but that's not how the money is supposed to be used. It's for payroll. The fact that they are including sole prop's on up in this program means they must acknowledge the possibility for these entities to pay themselves.

    If you get the loan, after 6 months, you have to prove you paid yourself and up to 25% can be for rent, etc. If you prove this, 100% is forgiven. How exactly a sole prop proves he paid himself is TBD but I don't think is correct to assume it is not allowed. I still don't see how you can be an expert on it considering the PPP program hasn't even started. Whatever, we'll see how it works out. I wouldn't be surprised if the little guys get some shortened end of the stick. Welcome to the forum.

  4. #44
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    Default Ohh fer chissakes

    Money is fungible

    If you borrow 50k [2.5 x 20k monthly payroll] and pay that amount of payroll throgh the end of June, without cutting anyones pay[IOW you cannot cut pay and hire more people for less, or fire everyone and hire cheaper help] then that amount is forgiven

    If your payroll is less than the amount you borrowed, you can still get 25 percent forgiveness for the amount paid in utilities and rent/mortgage

    Big question to me is how long before check get here, can you afford to keep going till the check gets here.

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  6. #45
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    BTW they are pretty much making the rules up as they go along, so don't get pissy if some info is wrong

    I would be careful about trying to game the system, as there will be plenty of time to investigate in the cold light of day

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    I REALLY want to see a breakdown of how the stimulus money gets distributed, I suspect the real amounts that go to true small businesses will be trivial and many applications will be denied.

    On the other hand, large businesses (with proper connections and lobbyists) will get more than they were supposed to, including those that should get none, like the Cruise industry and Big Aircraft. Cruise being an epicenter of contagion, Big Air because we should require them to either pay it all back (like the auto companies did) or have shares issues to the public as recompense.

    A Florida man dies days after hundreds exposed to coronavirus walked around world's busiest airport - CNN

    Frigging heartbreaking...

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    I don't know about the rest of you but the bank contacted us this am and sent out new forms from the SBA - not much different, but the first application forms we received required updates and will not be used.

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    Quote Originally Posted by motion guru View Post
    I don't know about the rest of you but the bank contacted us this am and sent out new forms from the SBA - not much different, but the first application forms we received required updates and will not be used.
    I was going to compose a red alert for this but you beat me to it. The SBA will NOT process applications which used the previous form. Unlike the previous editable PDFs this time we were sent jpeg versions and had to fill out by hand. Hope they can read it. No essential changes at all, just some fucking holdovers at SBA throwing a monkey wrench in there to keep from having to do any actual work.

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    April 1 I spoke directly with somebody at SBA. Yes, can get both the 10k and the PPP. Spent a morning surfing for forms. Called Santander and they said something was going to happen. gov website does say it is to go live April 3, but as of yesterday it was still a moving target. Much of the information prior to this post is correct, but not all is correct. 2.5 times 2019 average monthly payroll. And employee making more than 100k gets listed at 100k. A lot of details may still be in flux, like how the gov/bank determines if you used the funds,75%, for payroll and 25% for rent/interest/utilities. Easy enough to see that you paid the employees and rent, but will they also look at your cash flow and see that you did not need the money?
    Nowhere in the documents I have read say anything about how you are to deal with hiring employees back when your state is in a lock down. Spoke with Santander Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. Slightly different answer each time. Friday I made the most progress and finally found some info on the Santander site and called them. This is an online process only, and you need to have access through your commercial online account. I had access to my personal and corp account through my personal online account and had to apply through the phone to get set up with a commercial online account. Takes up to 24 hours for that to happen. I should be good to go today as entrance emails came in last night.
    Moving target for everybody.

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    Got a call from our bank tonight, yes Sunday evening! They wanted to let us know that our loan had been submitted and was already approved by the SBA. But they had no idea when the funds would actually show up or how. One thing at a time. This is why it pays to have a good relationship with a local regional bank. They worked all day Saturday and Sunday to help their small business customers by walking these applications through the SBA maze.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alphonso View Post
    Does this mean I can borrow money to cover my payroll for the next 2 months and if I retain all employees for a year, I don't have to pay back anything???????.
    The government MAY allow it to be forgiven. Personally, I wouldn't go in to debt to keep people not working. They're covered by unemployment, we small owners get nothing but an opportunity to take on debt. The CARES act is nothing but a racket to bail out the huge corporations, give the Federal Reserve power over the economy and destroys small business for the sake of Amazon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Plane Parts View Post
    The CARES act is nothing but a racket to bail out the huge corporations, give the Federal Reserve power over the economy and destroys small business for the sake of Amazon.
    Umm - I agree with you on the first part, but not the last. djt HATES Bezos and Amazon.

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    Checked online with several other local lenders and the applications are ready to be filled out..My POS bank..

    When the application is ready, we will notify you by email. You can also check back here for updates. Please note that due to the anticipated demand, we are currently only accepting applications from customers of Citizens Bank. By filling out this form, you will receive an email notification when the application is available. Upon receipt of the notification email, you must then complete the application in a timely manner.

    crickets......fkn...Citizens bank

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    I have, for years, counseled anyone who would listen[hah!] to use a local bank. I even changed banks when my local bank got eaten up by a larger county wide bank.

    I think it will look good on this front, as while I would have assumed the big banks would have been all over this, it appears they have fallen down on the job.

    Emailed my banks loan department over the weekend, got a response with a link to their portal at 8:58 AM, had my docs in by noon.

    Hope I filled them out correctly!

    I am torn over this as I don't know if I will or should bring anyone back, it is not busy, is it safe?

    I guess if I don't spend it on payroll I won't spend it and just hand it back. If I am forced to it is a 25 percent discount on rent and utilities

    If we were still busy it would truly be 'free money' but it seems a reasonable bet for no cost and a little security

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    I called Santander again yesterday. Still working on the web portal. Maybe they will have it up after the funds are gone. Gee, sorry, but we can still get money to you. But you have to pay it back.
    There is another serious clusterfook in the program too. Employees had to get sent home and can collect without waiting. And there is this $600.00/week on top of unemployment amount. They are making more by staying home than they do if they come in to work. But I am supposed to bring them back if I get the PPP. And how can I bring them back if we are still locked down?

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    Quote Originally Posted by gustafson View Post
    I have, for years, counseled anyone who would listen[hah!] to use a local bank. I even changed banks when my local bank got eaten up by a larger county wide bank.

    I think it will look good on this front, as while I would have assumed the big banks would have been all over this, it appears they have fallen down on the job.

    Emailed my banks loan department over the weekend, got a response with a link to their portal at 8:58 AM, had my docs in by noon.

    Hope I filled them out correctly!

    I am torn over this as I don't know if I will or should bring anyone back, it is not busy, is it safe?

    I guess if I don't spend it on payroll I won't spend it and just hand it back. If I am forced to it is a 25 percent discount on rent and utilities

    If we were still busy it would truly be 'free money' but it seems a reasonable bet for no cost and a little security
    There is always something that needs to get done in any shop that you never seem to have time to get to. Key is to seriously focus on what needs to get done and under no circumstances do you make busy work out of it. Last thing you need is 2 men watching the one man with a wrench in his hand.

  21. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scruffy887 View Post
    I called Santander again yesterday. Still working on the web portal. Maybe they will have it up after the funds are gone. Gee, sorry, but we can still get money to you. But you have to pay it back.
    There is another serious clusterfook in the program too. Employees had to get sent home and can collect without waiting. And there is this $600.00/week on top of unemployment amount. They are making more by staying home than they do if they come in to work. But I am supposed to bring them back if I get the PPP. And how can I bring them back if we are still locked down?

    For sure - I have been hearing of folks making more on unemployment than if they were werking.
    THIS is a problem!

    Some of us are understanding this PPP in different light.

    My take on this is that "even if (and ESPECIALLY if) you are not working them, the Feds are simply wanting to run the unemployment benefit through the employer.
    One reason that they mentioned early on about this is that the employee doesn't feel that they are out of a job. They are still getting a check from their employer, and they will resume in a few weeks. So - added perceived security.

    One other reason - and although they may have mentioned it - I haven't heard it, but I have to ass_u_me - but this way you are still deducting the reg stuff from their checks, and especially so that their health insurance doesn't get botched - should they have ins through the employer.

    The PPP money is mostly to pay employees that are NOT at work, although - if you are working through (at least for now) then you win. (at least for now?)

    I don't think it's for the porpoise of bringing them back to doo nothing during the crunch. But maybe to doo nothing on the other side if they say it's OK to go back to werk this would likely be recommended?

    Another issue is if you need some employees, and not others.
    Have seen this already when a company needs some, but not others right now, yet the laid off folks get the same pay (or more in some cases?!).
    How doo you explain to the folks that you want to work on through - for the same pay as the other guy (likely of lesser importance) that gits paid the same to stay home and chase the wifey around the couch?

    There is just so much trouble with this whole thing.
    Hopefully it goes away and we don't git this deep in a crunch aggin in our lives!


    -----------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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  23. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post
    For sure - I have been hearing of folks making more on unemployment than if they were werking.
    THIS is a problem!

    Some of us are understanding this PPP in different light.

    My take on this is that "even if (and ESPECIALLY if) you are not working them, the Feds are simply wanting to run the unemployment benefit through the employer.
    One reason that they mentioned early on about this is that the employee doesn't feel that they are out of a job. They are still getting a check from their employer, and they will resume in a few weeks. So - added perceived security.

    One other reason - and although they may have mentioned it - I haven't heard it, but I have to ass_u_me - but this way you are still deducting the reg stuff from their checks, and especially so that their health insurance doesn't get botched - should they have ins through the employer.

    The PPP money is mostly to pay employees that are NOT at work, although - if you are working through (at least for now) then you win. (at least for now?)

    I don't think it's for the porpoise of bringing them back to doo nothing during the crunch. But maybe to doo nothing on the other side if they say it's OK to go back to werk this would likely be recommended?

    Another issue is if you need some employees, and not others.
    Have seen this already when a company needs some, but not others right now, yet the laid off folks get the same pay (or more in some cases?!).
    How doo you explain to the folks that you want to work on through - for the same pay as the other guy (likely of lesser importance) that gits paid the same to stay home and chase the wifey around the couch?

    There is just so much trouble with this whole thing.
    Hopefully it goes away and we don't git this deep in a crunch aggin in our lives!


    -----------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

    I think you have this correct OX, this is one way of underwriting the UI system, while actually trying to keep some productivity



    Many states have horrid UI, short terms and low payments. Mass is relatively generous, so when you add the 600 bucks, it is pretty good, better than that they make working. If the wife and I both worked 'jobs' our max regular unemployment would pay the mortgage, the extra money means we could, you know, eat.

    This is partly an attempt to keep the world turning, if you will,yeah you overpay some percentage of the workforce, but that is precisely the segment that is going to spend it, rather than throw it in the bank

    It also keeps people who do not have to work from working, enabling the whole social distancing thing to work

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    Quote Originally Posted by gustafson View Post
    I think you have this correct OX, this is one way of underwriting the UI system, while actually trying to keep some productivity



    Many states have horrid UI, short terms and low payments. Mass is relatively generous, so when you add the 600 bucks, it is pretty good, better than that they make working. If the wife and I both worked 'jobs' our max regular unemployment would pay the mortgage, the extra money means we could, you know, eat.

    This is partly an attempt to keep the world turning, if you will,yeah you overpay some percentage of the workforce, but that is precisely the segment that is going to spend it, rather than throw it in the bank

    It also keeps people who do not have to work from working, enabling the whole social distancing thing to work
    Florida is $275/wk for 12wks. Here's the floorplans at an apartment complex down the road from me. They're about the lowest you can find that isn't subsidized housing.capture.jpg

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    The feds are taking a page from the playbook of 'helicopter' Ben Bernake, who famously said that the way to combat a recession is to go up in a helicopter and throw bushels of money out the door in the hope that the little people pick it up and spend it, thereby keeping the economy running. Problem is, since they are just printing it rather than borrowing it, look for massive inflation next year... of course, first we have to survive til then.

    Dennis

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