Never assume dim. are in english added pic

microfusion · Sep 28, 2010

Never assume dim. are in english

Customer sent drawing of assembly they need us to weld. At first glance it appeared to be an ordinary weldment. Not 5 minutes after I recieved drawings, customers calls. "I forgot to make notation all dim. are metric.

So I reviewed further and did some quick setup and prototyping to make certain we could meet expections regarding welding. Tried several clever setups and proved it out.

My question is how in the world are these pcs. going to be made. Customer assured me they have vendor who is capable.

Any clues?

Thanks

TonyOW31 · Sep 28, 2010

microfusion said:
Customer sent drawing of assembly they need us to weld. At first glance it appeared to be an ordinary weldment. Not 5 minutes after I recieved drawings, customers calls. "I forgot to make notation all dim. are metric.

So I reviewed further and did some quick setup and prototyping to make certain we could meet expections regarding welding. Tried several clever setups and proved it out.

My question is how in the world are these pcs. going to be made. Customer assured me they have vendor who is capable.

Any clues?

Thanks

Did you miss putting in the attachment?

SND · Sep 28, 2010

What materials are they? is the ball something different than the shaft so that it has to be welded? how is it welded? laser? soldered(which ain't welding!!!)

metric...

ewlsey · Sep 28, 2010

When I was just getting started in design (not that long ago) I was struggling with a complicated injection molded plastic part. This was a part for a large automotive company. We work only in metric dimensions. I sent the CAD model to a tool shop for review. This was a large tool shop who only deals with automotive tooling. They sent me a review document asking to move some features. I thought it was a pretty minimal change since their requests were to move by "1" or less. I didn't realize until much later that they meant 1 inch. No note was made that dimensions were in inches.

I assumed they would use metric since the automotive industry has been all metric since the 70's (some exclusions apply). They assumed everyone must use inches, this is 'merica after all (the tool shop was in Canada, which just make me laugh). I wish we could settle on one system. I don't even care which one. Though I will say that now that I am comfortable with metric, I would have a hard time going back. Maybe it's a generational thing, I'm young.

-Wes

microfusion · Sep 28, 2010

Never assume dim. are in english added pic

cCustomer sent drawing of assembly they need us to weld. At first glance it appeared to be an ordinary weldment. Not 5 minutes after I recieved drawings, customers calls. "I forgot to make notation all dim. are metric.

So I reviewed further and did some quick setup and prototyping to make certain we could meet expections regarding welding. Tried several clever setups and proved it out.

My question is how in the world are these pcs. going to be made. Customer assured me they have vendor who is capable.

Any clues?

Thanks

Benta · Sep 29, 2010

That drawing is a joke.

Benta.

Pattnmaker · Sep 29, 2010

The other thing you have to be carefull of is drawings from Europe are often first angle projection rather than third.

ZAGNUT · Sep 29, 2010

a very simple rule of the metric world is that stuff like cabinetry and wood work uses the centimeter as the base unit and machining/metal fabrication uses the millimeter as the base unit....so just how are you going to weld a 0.1mm ball onto an even smaller diameter rod?

microfusion · Sep 29, 2010

Indentation on end of rod to accept ball

If you notice where the ball is to be joined to shaft, a small indentation to partially accept ball. That is the area I was wondering how it could be done. I guess it could be done on some of the newer high tech edm sinkers. We do work with a shop that has a wire edm that can run .0008 wire.

gregoryd · Sep 29, 2010

Did you confirm that the dims are mm? Who knows what they are thinking if the print was that incomplete to start, you may deliver them a batch of parts at 1/10 th the scale they expected.

SND · Sep 29, 2010

I'm still curious about what the materials are. Is the ball something different than the shaft?
And by welding to they mean solder?

daleroe · Sep 29, 2010

Could someone TIG weld it? - What would you use for a filler rod? How would you pick it up? How many do you melt through before you get a good one?

Resistance welding is the only thing I can imagine that might work? I'm interested to hear how something like that is done. Please enlighten me.

AeroE · Sep 29, 2010

gregoryd said:
Did you confirm that the dims are mm? Who knows what they are thinking if the print was that incomplete to start, you may deliver them a batch of parts at 1/10 th the scale they expected.

Worse than that.

A drawing intended to be executed in millimeters used to make parts dimensioned in inches results in parts 25.4 times larger than intended by the customer.

But that's just a detail. Details don't matter. :rolleyes5:

(That was one of the messages in one of the first threads I posted in here.)

I have a feeling hilarity would not ensue upon delivery of ginormous parts.

thegiff · Sep 29, 2010

It looks like a lot like a medical part I designed a while back. The ball would be laser welded to the wire while held in a CNC spin fixture in the laser welder. The pic below is of a similar device. It was found here:
http://www.northeastlaser.com/Laser_Welding_Photos.html

SND · Sep 29, 2010

So, how much does one of them laser welders cost?

jlrii · Sep 29, 2010

Friction Welding an option?

JR

microfusion · Sep 29, 2010

The pic from "the giff" is basicallly what we're talking about.

The pic you added is basic concept. Only difference is the shaft in the pic is .037 The shaft we're welding is .003 and the ball in pic is .069 while the ball we're welding to shaft is .004.

Still wandering how they can pit a recess into the tip of shaft to partially seat the ball in?

Also mat. on both pcs. is 440c stainless. Due to the nature of application soldering is not an option

rj newbould · Sep 29, 2010

microfusion said:
The pic you added is basic concept. Only difference is the shaft in the pic is .037 The shaft we're welding is .003 and the ball in pic is .069 while the ball we're welding to shaft is .004.

Still wandering how they can pit a recess into the tip of shaft to partially seat the ball in?

Also mat. on both pcs. is 440c stainless. Due to the nature of application soldering is not an option

Are those dimensions in inches or what? Perhaps laser engraving could pit the shaft... ???

Dave Cross · Sep 29, 2010

Damn that is small, .003" wire to .004" ball? How do they make a ball that small?
Thinnest production stuff I ever welded was .011" inconel mesh to a thick body, thinnest for fun was the .005" filler rod I used for that job together. That was with plasma though, I've never used laser. That is pretty cool you can weld that small.

Not sure how they would make the dimple...

Never assume dim. are in english added pic

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