CNC Programming

supervisor101 · Mar 5, 2019

We are going through a pretty severe crunch in CNC programming capacity due to product transitions into our plant. Programming has become a major bottleneck and we are considering all options.

Has anyone had experience in outsourcing basic OD/ID lathe work or vertical mill work?
Any pitfalls to be aware of?

What other solutions have worked?

Oldwrench · Mar 5, 2019

Outsourcing the programming or outsourcing the machine work?
This is pretty vague, like the canned meat I get in my daily email.

pgmrmike · Mar 5, 2019

Plenty of pitfalls, a lot of shops do shoddy work and consistently miss deadlines. Best bet is to talk to people you know in the industry and see who they recommend.( IMO )

As far as programming goes, I cant recall talking to anyone who has used an outside programmer with much success unless they are real production type jobs where everything is well documented. It is hard to generate good code without knowing exactly what you are working with. I have been approached many times about contract programming, and currently only do it for one shop, and thats because I was their programmer for 10yrs and know the machines and tooling.

mhajicek · Mar 5, 2019

Contact Ron Branch at 5thaxisprogramming.com. He and his guys are some of the best contract programmers in the industry.

Mad Mazak · Mar 5, 2019

be nice to know what type of machines. the type of materials. this might narrow down the choose of programing help you need.

triumph406 · Mar 5, 2019

I've never seen good success with outside programmers.

Last place I worked had a programmer who was a bit of tree hugger, any time there was a problem with a program they could never get hold of him as he was up in the Cascades hiking and out of cell coverage.

supervisor101 · Mar 5, 2019

Oldwrench said:
Outsourcing the programming or outsourcing the machine work?
This is pretty vague, like the canned meat I get in my daily email.

Request is for contract programming. we outsource to reputable machine shops but need to develop capability in our own plant. That's where part of the problem lies - historically outsourced and therefore we don't have the programs.....

This is reasonable simple production work mill and turn. We prefer to keep 5th axis work in house given the tolerances and fixturing challenges we have on those parts (too difficult to explain). By outsourcing the simple programming work we will have enough bandwidth to do the more complex stuff.

supervisor101 · Mar 5, 2019

Mad Mazak said:
be nice to know what type of machines. the type of materials. this might narrow down the choose of programing help you need.

Mazak VTC550, SVC5000 for mill work. Puma 400, 700, 800 for turn work.
Materials are majority 41XX. Typically 4130/4140

supervisor101 · Mar 5, 2019

Thanks - this is a great help.....

Ox · Mar 6, 2019

supervisor101 said:
Request is for contract programming. we outsource to reputable machine shops but need to develop capability in our own plant. That's where part of the problem lies - historically outsourced and therefore we don't have the programs.....

This is reasonable simple production work mill and turn. We prefer to keep 5th axis work in house given the tolerances and fixturing challenges we have on those parts (too difficult to explain). By outsourcing the simple programming work we will have enough bandwidth to do the more complex stuff.

You can't be serious?
:willy_nilly:

-------------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

DMF_TomB · Mar 6, 2019

usually the risk to do severe machine damage is too great even if the outside programming were free or the outside programmer gave money for the privilege of creating free programs.
.
even if you knew exact cnc model you obviously would also need to be aware of every parameter setting as a cnc can act quite different with different parameters.
.
usually programmer starts with being a cnc operator thus is very aware of the cnc and the parts typically made and the companies typical standards and expectations after a decade of experience
.
or outside programer puts up a $1,000,000 (or more) insurance bond and when a machine crash happens he gives up to bond for the cost of crash

Gobo · Mar 6, 2019

triumph406 said:
I've never seen good success with outside programmers.

Last place I worked had a programmer who was a bit of tree hugger, any time there was a problem with a program they could never get hold of him as he was up in the Cascades hiking and out of cell coverage.

Lucky bastard.

Guest · Mar 6, 2019

Any chance your programming methods for simple parts needs to be done more efficiently? It seems strange that you want to outsource the easy stuff and keep the hard stuff in house.

david n · Mar 6, 2019

No idea why turning work would get outsource programming? 2 axis stuff? All that should be done at the machine...................or do you only have operators?

All I ever heard about outsourced programming is it's usually a joke..............either the programming is garbage or it's just too conservative(?) or generic............meaning nothing was optimized....feeds, speeds, rapids, etc............

Mike1974 · Mar 6, 2019

DMF_TomB said:
usually the risk to do severe machine damage is too great even if the outside programming were free or the outside programmer gave money for the privilege of creating free programs.
.
even if you knew exact cnc model you obviously would also need to be aware of every parameter setting as a cnc can act quite different with different parameters.
.
usually programmer starts with being a cnc operator thus is very aware of the cnc and the parts typically made and the companies typical standards and expectations after a decade of experience
.
or outside programer puts up a $1,000,000 (or more) insurance bond and when a machine crash happens he gives up to bond for the cost of crash

Why are you so always "off the wall"?? :rolleyes5:

First, I get you run big machines, that probably make big crashes and costs lots of monies....

Second, I don't think a whole lot of us here (from my reading) are running those big machines, so your experiences probably only apply to maybe 10% of us. Don't misunderstand me, if I ever find myself doing your type of work (30ton castings not level with hardspots and 40" long tools), I will probably ask your advice if I run into a problem.

Third, bad programming or not, I would say the whole not crashing thing is (mostlly) on the setup guy. If he sees something odd/funny HIT FEED HOLD! If something looks off, or 'weird' HIT FEED HOLD! If you don't understand what is happening (IE a too small drill for a tap) HIT FEED HOLD!

Even as a noob programmer back in the day, I am pretty sure most of mistakes could/would have been caught by a good setup guy. Not to say I don't make mistakes today.

But they are few and far between. AND most of them I could point back to "well if you saw this xxxx why did you continue running the program and not come get me?"

Mike1974 · Mar 6, 2019

david n said:
No idea why turning work would get outsource programming? 2 axis stuff? All that should be done at the machine...................or do you only have operators?

All I ever heard about outsourced programming is it's usually a joke..............either the programming is garbage or it's just too conservative(?) or generic............meaning nothing was optimized....feeds, speeds, rapids, etc............

We used to run alot of lathe parts that had lots of contouring and not full(?) radii which made a pain in the ass for hand coding at the machine. Actually, couldn't be hand coded without a ton of trig., and then "is that right?" stuff...

We checked them with templates that were wireburned because that was the best we had at the time...

Guest · Mar 7, 2019

Having an extensive library of programs with tool width variables I am pretty sure my cut and paste method can run circles around any Cam-Cad software when it comes to 2 axis lathe programming on simple parts that don't have a lot of radius to radius blending. Even with that I have some 1988 software that I can quickly do the trig work on.
With the OP it is probably the case where they need to take different approaches to the programming depending on the type of parts.

Shawnrs · Mar 7, 2019

DMF_TomB said:
usually the risk to do severe machine damage is too great even if the outside programming were free or the outside programmer gave money for the privilege of creating free programs.
.
even if you knew exact cnc model you obviously would also need to be aware of every parameter setting as a cnc can act quite different with different parameters.
.
usually programmer starts with being a cnc operator thus is very aware of the cnc and the parts typically made and the companies typical standards and expectations after a decade of experience
.
or outside programer puts up a $1,000,000 (or more) insurance bond and when a machine crash happens he gives up to bond for the cost of crash

A good setup guy goes along way. I can make a turd of a program and he can prevent the machine from crashing by using this method called single block and dialing the rapid and feed moves down to 10 percent when proving out a program. Second a lot of your operators today are stupid and learn very little loading and unloading parts into a machine. Only your set up guys are the ones that learn programming but still most operators have no clue on how to setup a machine, what is a good chip, feed and speed etc.

solidworkscadman · Mar 7, 2019

mhajicek said:
Contact Ron Branch at 5thaxisprogramming.com. He and his guys are some of the best contract programmers in the industry.

I have learned so much over the years from Ron at emastercam.

Plane Parts · Apr 21, 2019

Rather than outsource the programming I outsource the entire part.

CNC Programming

Plastic

Titanium

Hot Rolled

Diamond

Plastic

Diamond

Plastic

Plastic

Plastic

Diamond

Diamond

Titanium

Guest

Guest

Diamond

Diamond

Diamond

Guest

Guest

Stainless

Hot Rolled

Aluminum

Similar threads