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Cocky young employee

Piechomper

Plastic
Joined
Apr 9, 2017
Location
Yorkshire England
I am shop foreman in a pump repair shop having trouble with a very cocky and smart thirty year old guy who thinks he’s the best engineer in the world , but has a shockingly poor skill set.
I have tried taking the guy under my wing and helping him , pointing out things he is doing badly and trying my best to help him improve his skills, only for him to mouth off and and not listen because he knows better than me. I have got 35 years in the trade where he has barely 10 years. He mouths off at the other guys in the shop and puts little to no effort into any job he is given. His current role is as a service engineer working on other customer sites , a job I have also done for a number of years. He appears to only want to be out on the road doing site work, showing little to no interest in working in the workshop. The problem is he does not have the skills to be able to go it alone and more importantly represent the company and in my opinion he is going to come unstuck very quickly. Things came to a head yesterday when he badly damaged a new pump case worth around £15000 and tried to cover up the damage.
I have had to report him to the facility manager as he has now seriously got under my skin and I am sick of having to correct his mistakes( because he is incapable) the problem is I now feel uncomfortable after doing this. How would you guys have handled this ?
 
What I want to know is why does he still have a job? Is he related to someone in upper management? If I could not fire the guy myself, I would do my best to get him canned. I have no use for people who are full of themselves that can't back it up.
 
No he’s not related to anyone although many years ago I worked at another pump company where this guy served his apprenticeship and I also worked with some of the guys who supposedly trained him , and I can’t believe he’s come from the same place. I seriously lost my shit with this guy a couple of months ago over his attitude and work dodging and I realise it’s a fine line between disciplining someone and being seen as a bully, But enough is now enough and I believe he needs taking to task.
 
Have you sat down and talked to him about his attitude? Let him know there is no place in the company for someone with that attitude and where he needs to improve. Also let him know the expectations and that if he waivers on any of it he will be written up. Then anything that happens after the 2nd write up he will be let go. Put everything in writing and make him sign it and give him a copy. This has scared a couple people straight for me, but it also has made a couple people find employment elsewhere.
 
Seek the company handbook.

Should be clear rules and guidelines.

The damage to new part bites but unless intent is proved most labor let protects the bum.

You start be "being official", document everything, do not forget and of the "W" s. Who, what, when, why and have clear defined case.

What was wrong?
What was expected?
What will be done be he and company to correct it?
Process to measure improvement.
What will be done if no improvement.

Set clear examples, complete the rectal crainiomitry or be removed from the company.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
 
I’ve already talked with him about his attitude , but I haven’t thought about writing him up officially. I think I will go down that route and see what effect that has on him. As far as I am concerned his cards are well and truly marked.
I have always tried to be a firm but fair foreman and as the rest of my staff are all around the fifty years old age like myself they are all good workers with a good work ethic and a pleasure to work with. Young guys these days seem to just want the wages and aren’t prepared to put the effort in to earn it and learn the trade. When I was starting out the old guys would punch you if you mouthed off or wouldn’t work.
 
I am shop foreman in a pump repair shop having trouble with a very cocky and smart thirty year old guy who thinks he’s the best engineer in the world , but has a shockingly poor skill set.
I have tried taking the guy under my wing and helping him , pointing out things he is doing badly and trying my best to help him improve his skills, only for him to mouth off and and not listen because he knows better than me. I have got 35 years in the trade where he has barely 10 years. He mouths off at the other guys in the shop and puts little to no effort into any job he is given. His current role is as a service engineer working on other customer sites , a job I have also done for a number of years. He appears to only want to be out on the road doing site work, showing little to no interest in working in the workshop. The problem is he does not have the skills to be able to go it alone and more importantly represent the company and in my opinion he is going to come unstuck very quickly. Things came to a head yesterday when he badly damaged a new pump case worth around £15000 and tried to cover up the damage.
I have had to report him to the facility manager as he has now seriously got under my skin and I am sick of having to correct his mistakes( because he is incapable) the problem is I now feel uncomfortable after doing this. How would you guys have handled this ?

Hard to answer really. The fact that you feel this way is ok yet even good parents and authority figures have wrestling feelings about such situations when they actually care. Cant save everyone and they may have to go learn for themselves banging their heads on every wall they pass.

Too realize that you can not exactly take him like the military has the full right of doing and making him useful in a highly controlled environment. Even so even the military has the brig full of people who can not get along. Something very well might come along and change them a situation, Run in with the law, fall in love or out of it, and perhaps just someone who without a huge ability or even charisma can reach them.

This kind of personality always causes havoc in a shop and it costs extra money also if allowed to continue. The very worst scenario is when someone so described actually is the boss or owner. That can happen in this business too and frequently the results being a transient workforce.

This fellow has not changed and things have “piled up” due to his problems. They have reached a unavoidable level which most likely never be reversed out there and certainly where he is now the truth is that time has passed never to return.

Learn from it what you can is the best you can do now. You did the best you knew how and it could not help him and so your guilt is understandable only in the context you might be able to correct some shortcomings. Usually such things are learned after the fact under such review. Move on but learn one day you might find out you really had a good impact on him which helped him adjust properly. I am sure you did him some good for sure anyway.
 
OP has come upon the rock of not issuing adverse reports and written warnings in a timely manner....Ive no doubt there are similar wrongful dismissal laws in England as here,and so someone cannot simply be terminated without lawful reason......otherwise employee is going to put in a claim for wrongful dismissal and it will be upheld.
 
We belonged to the OSHA SHARPS program for a lot of years, shop safety is a big thing and founr it easy to get rid of a guy like that by catching him in a fairly serious safety violation, write it up as so and OSHA will actually back you if needed. I only once had a hint of a problem after a termination and I simply sent a copy of our OSHA file and SHARPS certificates to his attorney, never heard another word, first offense, bang he was gone end of story. That SHARPS thing really is cool.
 
I think you've just described most of a generation.

The problem is you can't fire them fast enough and you end up needing the workers more then you need them fired.....


I will ask, How much collateral damage will it take?

My assigned apprentice was roughly $10K in damage..........And it was a random drug test that finally got him........HR will make or break a company.........

The handbook is your friend.......
 
here ,a permanent employee has to be given written warnings,verbal warnings,counselled by employers and supervisors,and a written notice of termination,stating reasons ,and a record of the assorted allegations, counsellings ,warnings etc. ,all separated by a suitable period to allow it to soak in......The guy I worked for used to get his jollies capriciously firing people ,and later coughing up $5000 or so for unlawful dismissal.
 
I’ve already talked with him about his attitude , but I haven’t thought about writing him up officially. I think I will go down that route and see what effect that has on him. As far as I am concerned his cards are well and truly marked.

Guess what? The neck of a bottle is always at the top.

I'd fire YOU and let a wiser, faster-moving, more ALERT and decisive replacement fire the problem you had not sorted BACK WHEN you chose to live with it .. instead of doing YOUR job.

Drag along for YEARS then whine and worry when you finally do the overdue?

And carry the company's soiled-laundry to a globally-viewed, google-indexed public forum to bad-mouth the f**ker behind his back to strangers and whine for sympathy?

You are in the wrong job function every bit as much as HE is.

Lead. Follow.

Or get TF out of the way.
 
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My assigned apprentice was roughly $10K in damage..........And it was a random drug test that finally got him.

Did you have any hints of the upcoming mayhem, or did the apprentice seem OK at the beginning?

While I've never had a formal apprentice program at my shop, I've been fairly lucky with the youngsters that I've hired, only had one that really couldn't understand the "physics" of tool use, and at least he tried.
 
Guess what? The neck of a bottle is always at the top.

I'd fire YOU and let a wiser, faster-moving, more ALERT and decisive replacement fire the problem you had not sorted BACK WHEN you chose to live with it .. instead of doing YOUR job.

Drag along for YEARS then whine and worry when you finally do the overdue?

And carry the company's soiled-laundry to a globally-viewed, google-indexed public forum to bad-mouth the f**ker behind his back to strangers and whine for sympathy?

You are in the wrong job function every bit as much as HE is.

Lead. Follow.

Or get TF out of the way.

Had to see if I am running a fever or something. Because I actually agree with you.
OP, you are responsible for what happens on your watch. Tell him what needs to be done, and WHEN it needs to be finished. And keep in mind that some people do not learn important things as fast as others. He may need to get fired from many jobs before he "gets it".
 
I once had a boss who solved these problems on occasion by making the problem child work with the most ornery guy on hand. Typically I would think of this as being an old hard noised veteran of the day. Although in this case it was me an impatient 20 something kid who wanted to get stuff done. In our case it was laziness and lack of punctuality. My strategy was to outwork them and generally convince them that it would be just easier to quit. Nothing physical ever just hard crappy work with lots of verbal abuse. Two days was the max they lasted.
 
The problem is he does not have the skills to be able to go it alone and more importantly represent the company and in my opinion he is going to come unstuck very quickly.

Sounds like you just need to wait for this situation to work out. You think it will work out "very quickly".

Sounds like you're past the point of trying to help him (especially if he can't be helped). Just don't cover for him. Document what you can in an objective manner. Take it day by day and this will all be over soon.
 








 
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