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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by tjd10684 View Post
    About clouds. My cousin has been taking network security classes (for Seimens) his advice to me was if you want your data secure write it down and put it in a vault because their is no such thing as secure when your connected to a network and the clouds are easier to hack than anything else since their key is they need to be open to multiple devices. and more openings = easy target. second best way to keep your stuff secure is to have it on a computer that is NOT physically connected to ANY network so if you wanted to access something like procedures or something else highly proprietary you would physically have to go to the computer to access it.
    And Ima give you my like #2. Yeah, it may be a neat thing. But these people should NEVER put sensitive info on these "cloud" storage servers. Stupid BS and such is fine, which begs the question, "why bother with that"???? waste the money????

    Throw your Money away, put yourself at risk if you really want. If you had any of my confidential info on a cloud, anticipate a thorough beat-down. But you all wont have, I know where that is.

  2. #22
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    the only thing clouds are good for is if you want have your music available on a bunch of different devices or maybe personal pictures (not REALLY of personal though). And as far as that goes you dont have access to it everywhere everywhere you only have it where you have cell signal or open wifi. if you notice only things like the iphone and tablets that you have to buy cell plans for can use cloud services. oh and by the way when you access your information on the cloud your using data on your plan every time you access it so if you DL a HD movie something ~2gb to the cloud so you can watch it on the bus while going to work then when you stream it from the cloud your paying for it three times. once to download and another to access and again for any overage on your typically 2gb bandwidth allowance from your cell provider. you could get around that last one by using an open wifi hot spot but do you really want to watch a movie on a 2.5" screen in starbucks?

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelP View Post
    Yes. Many times .They fail a way more often than hard drives. And I use them on everyday basis since they appear on the market and tried many different brands that had the highest ratings.

    If you never seen one failed it tells me your experience with them is very limited.
    And I bet if I told you that I'd never wrecked a motorcycle, you'd accuse me of never putting on enough miles. Can't tell you how many, but a lot. I have a jump drive that is 10 years old and has seen a lot of data, way the hell more than it is capable of holding. been full, cleaned mostly down, and been full again several times.

    It'd be my guess that there is more happening there. It is my understanding that these storage devices are depleted with usage. Constant read/write will deplete them???/ yes/no???/ But if you use them as backup. write to them once a week, once a day... I can't believe that you'd have a failure. Unless you are buying total trash. If you are handling so much data that you are writing every day, use them for quarters. 4 a year, prolly $40 or so, better than $100+ on your cloud 9.

    Do you even know what I mean by "quarters"?

    If this "depletion" characteristic is fact, a purely backup device should NEVER fail. As in, quit reading/writing all your damn porn and stuff to and from the device in an attempt to hide it from your GF/wife. Also, remove the damn thing properly. Don't just pull it out and go. Use the "eject device" ya fool

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by tjd10684 View Post
    the only thing clouds are good for is if you want have your music available on a bunch of different devices or maybe personal pictures (not REALLY of personal though). And as far as that goes you dont have access to it everywhere everywhere you only have it where you have cell signal or open wifi. if you notice only things like the iphone and tablets that you have to buy cell plans for can use cloud services. oh and by the way when you access your information on the cloud your using data on your plan every time you access it so if you DL a HD movie something ~2gb to the cloud so you can watch it on the bus while going to work then when you stream it from the cloud your paying for it three times. once to download and another to access and again for any overage on your typically 2gb bandwidth allowance from your cell provider. you could get around that last one by using an open wifi hot spot but do you really want to watch a movie on a 2.5" screen in starbucks?
    Hell, let them pay. I'm beginning to believe that it is more acceptable to pay extra stupid money than to find better, cheaper ways.

    I really am beginning to think that these idiots would NEVER believe the properties we own on the income we have.

    Fact is... I have NEVER had a starbucks coffee... never will... $5+ for a coffee... that is right out retarded. Especially when some companies have free...
    Fact is... I can eat a VERY wholesome lunch for under $3... but prepared at home and not a bunch of bullshit preservatives and garbage from your fastfood
    Fact is... I use an old ass flip-phone. I don't have need for all the bells and whistles and data plan and I have no commitment to a provider
    Fact is... I am more thrilled to say I SAVED money rather than say i have the latest "this and that"
    Fact is... If I were single, I bet I could afford our 1/4MIL$$ debt on a mere 29K/year income... yeah, i used the calculator on that

    You all can blow your money. Don't let me shit in your messkit. WTF... I guess this economy needs idiots throwing their money away. have at it. shun the fact that I WASTED my damn time to give my thoughts in hope that SOMEONE, ANYONE might learn a little something. something that could pay off in the end

    BUT... once again, I'll be laughing...............

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  6. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by annoying View Post
    Huh??? Are you meaning jump drives(flash drives)?? Are they too much hassle to carry? really? I've seen 4Gig units as small as about .5 x .5 x .2"(estimate) counting the plug. Oh, that is so tough to handle that. Are you people "left handed". WTH?!?!?! If that is too big, what about SD cards? Micro SD? many computers these days at least take the SD cards, right? I hope they are small enough for you to handle.....

    Ah,......yah

    I've had flash drives just die, no reason. I've had SD cards die, or be readable in one device, not readable in another, while an identical card works fine. Anything with flash memory is subject to failure. They can also get lost (please ask my wife that, and maybe suggest tying a big ribbon to them so they don't disappear anymore)

    My opinion is any hardware can fail, and I'm not interested in having the greatest Rube Goldberg setup of external drives and peripherals to provide failsafe. I want to be able to access files quickly, conveniently, and consistently. The heroic stuff about reformatting my harddrive or whatever I have no interest in. Just fling the crap box computer out and buy another. What TJD10684 described with setting up the RAID drives is fascinating, but it's also geek tech stuff. Most people aren't going to bother, most people aren't interested, rather they view and use their computer as a piece of office equipment

    Hacking, yeah, good point, but none of my data is so precious as to require Get Smart- Cone of Silence security. I don't store any SS numbers, account numbers, passwords in vulnerable places (at least I hope) Flash drives can be stolen, or left behind. They can also be copied lightning fast, as opposed to hacking into a server which likely takes some time. Dropbox or carbonite might get hacked, but any online connection is subject to the same.

    In the issue is security versus catastrophic loss of data. You could put your data on a flash drive and store it in a bank safe deposit box, but not very practical.

    Gary

  7. #26
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    Annoying,

    Jump drive capacity slowly decreases as you use it, but this is not the reason for failure. I highly doubt that you'll ever notice the capacity decrease since your drive will fail well before it'll become noticable.

    The fact that it has no moving parts doesn't guarantee that it won't fail. Ever seen RAM failures, for example?

    And yes, I'm familiar with a proper way to eject USB devices, esp. those that contain memory chips.

    Anyway, I'm not going to argue with you. Believe whatever you want to believe.

    Gary,

    RAID arrays are nice, but they won't protect you from certain failures. For example, a corrupted file will be copied to the secondary drive(s), so it will not protect you from data corruption. It won't protect you if you accidentally wipe/ovewrite your files. It won't help against virus attacks. It will help only partially if you have motherboard failure unless you have an identical motherboard in your closet (you will be able to recover data, but you'll need to reinstall your operating system). So RAIDs are not substitutes for incremental backups.

    By the way, there's a similar approach when you use an inexpensive software to mirror your drives. It runs on the background and constantly synchronizes chosen by you data to another drive (local or network). However, it has similar drawbacks as the hardware-based RAIDs.

    And if you want to keep a reliable backup in your safe deposit box (or any other storage space), please don't use flash memory devices. Use optical carriers instead (CDs, DVDs). They are MUCH more failure proof and long lasting.

  8. #27
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    Hello Annoying, you do have some good points.
    We saved a manual in .pdf from Dropbox for a used Charmilles EDM machine we bought.
    That seems like a great application for Dropbox right there.
    Other than that I'll look into the sticks for backups.

  9. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelP View Post
    snip/
    RAID arrays are nice, but they won't protect you from certain failures. For example, a corrupted file will be copied to the secondary drive(s), so it will not protect you from data corruption. It won't protect you if you accidentally wipe/ovewrite your files. It will help only partially if you have motherboard failure unless you have an identical motherboard in your closet (you will be able to recover data, but you'll need to reinstall your operating system). So RAIDs are not substitutes for incremental backups.

    By the way, there's a similar approach when you use an inexpensive software to mirror your drives. It runs on the background and constantly synchronizes chosen by you data to another drive (local or network). However, when it comes to data corruption, it has similar drawbacks as the hardware-based RAID has.

    And if you want to keep a reliable backup in your safe deposit box (or any other storage space), please don't use flash memory devices. Use optical carriers instead (CDs, DVDs). They are MUCH more failure proof and long lasting.
    hopefully most of us are computer savvy enough not to accidentally delete a drive but you are correct that individual file corruption is still a possibility. I contend though that an individual file even a relatively important one is not nearly as much of a loss as a total drive failure, and thats what were talking about here protection from total drive failure. It would still be advisable to have alternative backups for critical information but for the most part a RAID 1 system is a VAST improvement from what most people are using.

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    Of course. My point is that there is no single method that would guarantee full protection. That's why it's important to understand their shortcomings and arrange protection accordingly.

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    I have a 1TB External Hard Drive, that I use only for backing up the computer. I have it set that it backs up the computer once a day. Once a month is just crazy, you going to remember everything you did in the last month? It will probably take you another month just to get caught back up. All the files stay on the external drive and when it gets full, it just rights over the oldest one. If the main drive crashes I just reload that backup, and it includes everything including the operating system, so with one restore its exactly how it was. Backing up individual files is great, but when it crashes monday morning and you need to reinstall every program, you are going to have one hell of a bad week ahead of you.

    If your worried about someone stealing the drive, just have two and every week you rotate them and put the other in a safe or at home, so if the computer and backup gets stolen, you backup is less than a week old.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RedBaron View Post
    snip/
    My opinion is any hardware can fail, and I'm not interested in having the greatest Rube Goldberg setup of external drives and peripherals to provide failsafe. I want to be able to access files quickly, conveniently, and consistently. The heroic stuff about reformatting my harddrive or whatever I have no interest in. Just fling the crap box computer out and buy another. What TJD10684 described with setting up the RAID drives is fascinating, but it's also geek tech stuff. Most people aren't going to bother, most people aren't interested, rather they view and use their computer as a piece of office equipment
    snip/
    Gary
    I know most people are not interested in this kind of "tech geek" stuff. heck I have my computer hooked to the net with only minimal security but I do have a RAID 1 for my "mission critical". It makes sense when you start thinking about all the down stream effects of loosing ALL of your information. Remember that customer from 2 yrs ago with the really complex part that needed it asap and you had to redraw it for yourself or re write the g code 3 times if it saves you from having to redo all that work 5 times the cost of an extra drive starts to look pretty small.

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  16. #32
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    Just because no one's mentioned it, and I *do* use it, back up to tape. While I've had success with DAT drives, I recommend LTO or at least DLT drives. You need a few generations of backup, and a business should do offsite storage as well. RAID has been mentioned, it's a good idea, especially RAID5. A single failure in the array can usually be recovered.
    While 4-9's reliability is nice to have, you won't see it on PC hardware, so planning for a graceful failure and easy recovery is usually a better idea.

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    Quote Originally Posted by machinistrrt View Post
    Just because no one's mentioned it, and I *do* use it, back up to tape. While I've had success with DAT drives, I recommend LTO or at least DLT drives. You need a few generations of backup, and a business should do offsite storage as well. RAID has been mentioned, it's a good idea, especially RAID5. A single failure in the array can usually be recovered.
    While 4-9's reliability is nice to have, you won't see it on PC hardware, so planning for a graceful failure and easy recovery is usually a better idea.
    I hate tape backups. Did it for years using 9 track to DLT, right PITA. Rather use almost anything else. Not only is tape dead slow, it's also not random access, the drives are fragile as are the tapes. Let's not bother.

    What with cheap NAS RAID boxes I fail to see what the problem is anyway. Spend a couple hundred dollars and problem solved. I've got one on my home net, computer backs up to it every 10 minutes (incremental backup). Source code I save to Sourceforge in case the house burns down, computer gets stolen etc. I do agree about the total lack of security backing up to a cloud site (not to mention that you're screwed if the net is down) so I only back up stuff there that I don't care if others read.

    PDW

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  19. #34
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    I like some of the ideas listed. I have been using hamachi2 for the last several years and have had no problems. I set up a free hamachi account on the work computers and two offsite computers. I use Backup4all software ($40.00) and mirror backup to these locations on encrypted drives every night. It's a simple, low cost offsite backup that gives me peace of mind, and I don't have to think about it. I feels good knowing where my data is and having complete control. My main work computer failed and I restored my data very quickly and had access to it instantly over the network. Right now I am only using the cloud for music and such as I just cant trust my data being somewhere unknown.

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  21. #35
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    Everyone loses data at some point in their lives. If you want to ensure your files stay safe, you can back them up to the internet with a internet online services.All that may sound complicated, but the more you automate your backup system, the more frequently you’ll be able to back up and the greater the odds you’ll stick with it. That’s why you should use an automated tool instead of copying files to an external drive by hand. You can just set it up once, and forget it.

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    wngrr1 hasn't been around in quite a while, hopefully he's doing ok.

    As to back up, ain't no cloud anything here. Got a bunch of USB chips though. I keep doubles for each pc's business/cad/cam stuff.
    I recently learned USB sticks can go bad..

  23. #37
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    This is 6 years old.. I bet he learned his lesson

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    Quote Originally Posted by SND View Post
    I recently learned USB sticks can go bad..
    I bet that was a bad day!


    -----------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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    One thing worth adding old school hard drives are not cool, but although there more prone to fails, the data is very much more expert recoverable than a lot of the solid state alternatives. Platter swaps are a pretty common thing these days, dealing with a partially fried SSD is a lot tougher option. Best backup strategy is to have a few different options!

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    back up back up back up and back up your back ups. Also whether you back up to the cloud oor a hard drive locally it is still on a hard drive of some kind somewhere. Everything on the internet is on a hard drive in a data center somewhere in the world.

    If your data is really important than have on site and off site backup. So say a hard drive locally and either the cloud or a drive somewhere else or both.

    In places where long term archival storage is a huge deal for really important stuff they still use tape storage in a lot of cases.


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